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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

Aren't there any proponents of 413 on this site?
I would only support it if it was built with as small of a footprint as possible with compact interchanges, and on the condition that this highway isn't to provide access to new sprawl. But since it will probably have a ROW a million metres wide with massive sprawling interchanges every 2km, as well as the reality that it probably will result in the sprawlization of the Greenbelt, it probably isn't a good idea to build. It will just end up being a congested road for the new developments rather than being a bypass of the 401, which would probably make it worse than it was without it because now you have a new source of traffic dumped on the 400.
 
MTO really needs to look into turning 35 north of 115 into a RIRO up to Lindsay. Right now it's very slow going especially if you get stuck behind a truck trailer.
Yes, it needs help, but it's pretty low traffic overall. It's just plagued by lots of trucks and lots of hills. More passing and climbing lanes is probably enough.

I'm a proponent of the 413, much to the chagrin of some on this board... but yea, I wouldn't be opposed to a "right-sizing" of it to reduce impacts if that's the sort of thing that gets it built.

Most people are opposed to it on ideological grounds though so of course that won't happen.
 
Aren't there any proponents of 413 on this site?
There certainly are, given that I've debated with a few before. LOL.

Yes, it needs help, but it's pretty low traffic overall. It's just plagued by lots of trucks and lots of hills. More passing and climbing lanes is probably enough.
Would not be against an undivided 4-lane there.
I'm a proponent of the 413, much to the chagrin of some on this board... but yea, I wouldn't be opposed to a "right-sizing" of it to reduce impacts if that's the sort of thing that gets it built.
Looking at the plans which they released ... it looks quite enormous, and designed to handle suburban developments.
Most people are opposed to it on ideological grounds though so of course that won't happen.
Rebuttal, better than I could ever say:
I would only support it if it was built with as small of a footprint as possible with compact interchanges, and on the condition that this highway isn't to provide access to new sprawl. But since it will probably have a ROW a million metres wide with massive sprawling interchanges every 2km, as well as the reality that it probably will result in the sprawlization of the Greenbelt, it probably isn't a good idea to build. It will just end up being a congested road for the new developments rather than being a bypass of the 401, which would probably make it worse than it was without it because now you have a new source of traffic dumped on the 400.
 
So I was thinking that the 410 should be extended north to Orangeville. heading on highway 10 I've been seeing crazy amounts of traffic,
Looking at the most recent (2016) MTO AADT numbers, the peak on Highway 10 (from 410 to Peele Road is 35,600 (dropping to 22,2000 between Highway 24 and Highway 9).. Compare to other high numbers, such 20,300 on the west section of Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph, 20,200 on Highway 7 east of Ottawa. 34,500 on Highway 3 to the EC Row Expressway in Windsor, 38,100 on 6, north of Highway 5.

Seems reasonable to extend 410 towards Orangeville.
 
I'm a soft proponent of GTA West AKA 413. Although I would much prefer having a route further north to connect new Highway 7 freeway between K-W and Guelph to the 404. Bradford Bypass would be replaced too.

Something like this
qnbyLS1.png
 
I'm a soft proponent of GTA West AKA 413. Although I would much prefer having a route further north to connect new Highway 7 freeway between K-W and Guelph to the 404. Bradford Bypass would be replaced too.

Something like this
qnbyLS1.png
You just completely destroyed Bradford.
 
Last edited:
I'm a soft proponent of GTA West AKA 413. Although I would much prefer having a route further north to connect new Highway 7 freeway between K-W and Guelph to the 404. Bradford Bypass would be replaced too.

Something like this
qnbyLS1.png

At that point may as well build what I consider the road lovers fever dream and bring the highway North of Barrie to connect at the 400/11 interchange.
 
You just completely destroyed Bradford.
lol it was just a rough concept. In reality it would absolutely avoid places like this.

At that point may as well build what I consider the road lovers fever dream and bring the highway North of Barrie to connect at the 400/11 interchange.

It's this far north to stay farther away from Greater Toronto to discourage sprawl.

It forms a secondary / alternative route to the 401/400 for people from west of Toronto to avoid Greater Toronto to get around or north of Toronto. You can see in my rough map it avoids the 401/407 junction which means Brampton wouldn't have a sort of ring road around it like GTA west.
 
Looking into it a bit more, it appears that long term Peel Region is actually planning for an interchange at Highway 50/Major Mack...


Thats.. Interesting.


Gotta say I really dislike this plan. It's just not intuitive. If you're going to build a new east-west arterial in that part of Brampton on a similar alignment to Major Mackenzie, why not just extend Major Mackenzie, and have Coleraine realigned to meet it slightly further west? Or you could even build a roundabout at Hwy 50/Major Mackenzie/Coleraine so you can access all 5 directions from one point?
Screenshot 2021-09-25 011811.png
 
Aren't there any proponents of 413 on this site?
Well I used to support 413, but a few things I saw that changed my opinion were;

1. The plan that the province put out was as land hungry as they could have made it. The interchanges were massive, the ROW was super wide, and they chose a Parco entry and exit for the highway. This is the most fertile land in ontario, and has very environmentally sensitive areas that the province made ZERO attempt to protect. If they created a design that used the least amount of land for a highway as possible then it would be more supportive.

2. The highway isn't really useful on a network perspective. It goes from highway 401/407 to 400 in north Vaughn. Its not a north/south highway or east/ west highway. Wanna go from 401 / 407 to 404 bypassing the 401. Nope you push traffic onto the 400 and force them to use the Bradford bypass which is further north most likely requiring you to head back south. Want to head east to kitchener bypassing 401, nope you'll be sent back south to 401 and then head back north. It is only useful for local traffic. The only market it severs is southeast to Northern Ontario.

3. The 407 is already there, with a full east route from 407/401 to 115 Peterborough. A full bypass of the busiest stretch of the 401 with connections to every north south highway in the GTA. Its an actual bypass that is much more useful to the network, and runs near large logistic centers. Yes its tolled, but that 3 billion can be used to subsidize trucks, cancel the deal with ETR, or used for other important highway projects. 3 billion can by a lot of highway kms.

4. It encourages subdivision sprawl. Yep we are still building the most unsustainable development humans created. No attempt has been made to increase suburban sustainability such as following the missing middle (montreal model), or streetcar suburban model (old toronto with buses not streetcars). Google or youtube Strong Towns. Some interesting findings. So if the province put in protections for the whitebelt (farm land) that would be as strong as for the green belt, and Ford stopped the MZO nonsense, then I would feel more comfortable supporting it.

Unfortunately this is not the case, and the MTO is still stuck in the thinking of "this is the way it has always been done". The province is continuing spawling like crazy making our American friends jealous.

So its not ideological, i know highways are needed and support them but they need to be well placed and thought out.
 
I would be interested in if "Waze" would suggest getting off at Highway 7 or Rutherford Road before continuing north on Highway 50? And use Highway 7 or Rutherford for the reverse trip. Bypassing Major MacKenzie entirely.

Yes I experimented coming home via Rutherford one day this week. It definitely saved some time. There seems to be new daily congestion on highway 50 between the Major Mack/Coleraine and Countryside Drive intersections too.
 

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