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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

nfitz said:
Is there any timing for starting the six-laning again? It ends near Cobourg currently (other than the section through Kingston which has higher usage). Extending to Belleville would add another 70 km! As far as I remember, they were still 6-laning through Bowmanville in the 1970s ... let's say 68 km in 40 years (can't quite remember if was closer to 1975 or 1979 ... so many roadtrips that way living in Kingston!). At that rate, I never thought I'd see it all the way to Kingston in my lifetime ... which is probably another 65 km past Belleville. (on track for about the year 2100 at the rate they've been going since the 1970s).
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Ford promised some increased funding as a part of his platform, it was one of the few road related platform items (GTA West, 6 laning the 401, extending the 417 to Renfrew). The other two items have already received action from the province, as we saw yesterday. I imagine this will follow.

MTO was planning to do these interchange upgrades over the next few years and 6 lane the highway through Belleville in the next couple of years anyway, from my understanding. It would result in the 6 lane stretch going to Cobourg, then have two independent stretches of 6 lanes in Belleville and Kingston. After that I imagine MTO would slowly start to widen the highway to fill in the gaps.. The timelines may just be accelerated now with political masters on board.
 
Oh, I've missed hearing about the 417 extension as well. GTA West is still paper studies - those are relatively cheap. I can't see that progressing quickly, unless a 407-type or REM-like consortium was to take over the planning.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Ford promised some increased funding as a part of his platform, it was one of the few road related platform items (GTA West, 6 laning the 401, extending the 417 to Renfrew). The other two items have already received action from the province, as we saw yesterday. I imagine this will follow.

MTO was planning to do these interchange upgrades over the next few years and 6 lane the highway through Belleville in the next couple of years anyway, from my understanding. It would result in the 6 lane stretch going to Cobourg, then have two independent stretches of 6 lanes in Belleville and Kingston. After that I imagine MTO would slowly start to widen the highway to fill in the gaps.. The timelines may just be accelerated now with political masters on board.
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I think that's the likely plan. I see the phasing shaping up like this:

Phase 1: Through Belleville
Phase 2: Through Trenton
Phase 3: Between Trenton and Belleville (a lot of local commuting between the two)
Phase 4: Trenton to Cobourg
Phase 5: Belleville to Kingston

Overall, it makes sense to get the more urban sections first in order to handle the additional demand of local trips only getting on for an exit or two.
 
gweed123 said:
Overall, it makes sense to get the more urban sections first in order to handle the additional demand of local trips only getting on for an exit or two.
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Perhaps ... though the amount of work here is about double their output of the last 40 years, between Bowmanville and Cobourg. So do you see this being completed at faster than that rate ... ie. before 2099?
 
nfitz said:
Perhaps ... though the amount of work here is about double their output of the last 40 years, between Bowmanville and Cobourg. So do you see this being completed at faster than that rate ... ie. before 2099?
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Most likely as many stretches of the 401 are starting to warrant widening and need reconstruction anyway as they are reaching end of life.

I expect It will go much like the 400 reconstruction is going right now. Years of bridge and interchange rebuilds with little in the way of actual new vehicle lanes, then slowly the highway will start to get new lanes. The 400 has had major structural rehab projects going for about 10 years now.. The first widening stretch is set to open in 2021, with more down the pipeline as all the interchange rebuilds complete.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I expect It will go much like the 400 reconstruction is going right now. Years of bridge and interchange rebuilds with little in the way of actual new vehicle lanes, then slowly the highway will start to get new lanes. The 400 has had major structural rehab projects going for about 10 years now.. The first widening stretch is set to open in 2021, with more down the pipeline as all the interchange rebuilds complete.
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Gosh, I can't quite remember the last time I drove the 400 north of Major MacKenzie. The 3-laning to Barrie has been going on a lot longer than 10-years - I'm almost surprised it isn't finished yet! Where are they up to now?
 
nfitz said:
Perhaps ... though the amount of work here is about double their output of the last 40 years, between Bowmanville and Cobourg. So do you see this being completed at faster than that rate ... ie. before 2099?
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Most likely not, unless some big money is put into it. We may see the sections in and between Belleville and Trenton done by 2030ish, but that's about it.
 
nfitz said:
Gosh, I can't quite remember the last time I drove the 400 north of Major MacKenzie. The 3-laning to Barrie has been going on a lot longer than 10-years - I'm almost surprised it isn't finished yet! Where are they up to now?
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The only part that’s officially getting widened now is from major Mack to king road, but there are 3 interchange reconstructions underway with probably a half dozen bridge replacements as well. It’s been moving at a relatively rapid pace compared to 5 years ago.

The first thing they did to prepare for it was the king road interchange and that was what, maybe 8 years ago now?
 
nfitz said:
Gosh, I can't quite remember the last time I drove the 400 north of Major MacKenzie. The 3-laning to Barrie has been going on a lot longer than 10-years - I'm almost surprised it isn't finished yet! Where are they up to now?
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innsertnamehere said:
The only part that’s officially getting widened now is from major Mack to king road, but there are 3 interchange reconstructions underway with probably a half dozen bridge replacements as well. It’s been moving at a relatively rapid pace compared to 5 years ago.

The first thing they did to prepare for it was the king road interchange and that was what, maybe 8 years ago now?
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Highway 400 has been 3-laned to where 11 splits off north of Barrie for about 3 dozen years now.

42
 
nfitz said:
Gosh, I can't quite remember the last time I drove the 400 north of Major MacKenzie. The 3-laning to Barrie has been going on a lot longer than 10-years - I'm almost surprised it isn't finished yet! Where are they up to now?
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Current projects are the rebuilding of the Hwy 7 bridge (including alteration of the WB to NB ramp, King-Vaughan Rd Bridge replacement, and widening of the 400 bridge over 16th sideroad
 
lenaitch said:
I don't know what their thresholds are but, anecdotally, I think it qualifies, especially given the large percentage of commercial vehicles. A major concern is the dangerous, narrow v-ditch median that covers much of the corridor.
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It doesn't qualify on a traffic basis, AADT sits in the mid 20'000s, you typically need closer to 50,000 to widen. High truck volumes can reduce it, but not cut it in half.

The widening a political thing regarding safety. No different than the 400 extension to Sudbury - it isn't warranted on a traffic basis but is rather being pushed forward as a traffic safety item.
 
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