Roads: Montreal reduces city speed limits to 40 km/h

[W. K. Lis]

They go past my house once a week for the last decade. Not once have I ever seen cars backed up.

I don't think there's any law against walking or running on a street. There's laws against crossing at lights, when the light is red. Can you point to the section of the traffic act that you think running on a street violates?

If no one is allowed to walk or run on roads, then no one will be able to walk or run on streets that have no sidewalks... or when people didn't shovel their section of sidewalk.

 

[muller877]

If no one is allowed to walk or run on roads, then no one will be able to walk or run on streets that have no sidewalks... or when people didn't shovel their section of sidewalk.

On roads without sidewalks you are permitted to walk facing traffic only. 179(1)
Pedestrians only have the right of way when they are crossing a road 144(28)

Beyond legislation, pedestrians have a duty to care as part of various common law cases. That is, if a pedestrian is acting irresponsibly (including being in a place where the car cannot see them or makes a sudden move) it has been found that they are at fault, and not the auto.

and no matter what 100% of the time the pedestrian loses in what matters, their health....that's what happens when they believe that they are invincible against a 2000 lb vehicle.

 

[nfitz]

On roads without sidewalks you are permitted to walk facing traffic only. 179(1)

So runners can be on either side.

Pedestrians only have the right of way when they are crossing a road 144(28)

That is not what 144(28) says. It says:

Every pedestrian who lawfully enters a roadway in order to cross may continue the crossing as quickly as reasonably possible despite a change in the indication he or she is facing and, for purposes of the crossing, has the right of way over vehicles.​

It doesn't say anything about those not crossing the roadway!

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

This is getting off-topic...

My humble opinion is that the problem isn't the speed limits themselves, it's the fact that our laws basically enable drivers to go 10-20 over the limit with no consequence. As a driver, going a true 40 on a residential street seems to allow for reasonable response time, but 30 is just absurdly slow. 50+ is too fast, but there is no penalty for doing so and people do it all the time. I am guilty of regularly pushing 70 in 50 zones without street parking or other distractions. Perhaps we should just enforce speed limits!

EDIT: The city also needs to be more on topic of setting appropriate speed limits, and also bring back photo radar IMHO. We can't rely on the police to catch speeders with any regularity.

 

[muller877]

This is getting off-topic...

My humble opinion is that the problem isn't the speed limits themselves, it's the fact that our laws basically enable drivers to go 10-20 over the limit with no consequence. As a driver, going a true 40 on a residential street seems to allow for reasonable response time, but 30 is just absurdly slow. 50+ is too fast, but there is no penalty for doing so and people do it all the time. I am guilty of regularly pushing 70 in 50 zones without street parking or other distractions. Perhaps we should just enforce speed limits!

EDIT: The city also needs to be more on topic of setting appropriate speed limits, and also bring back photo radar IMHO. We can't rely on the police to catch speeders with any regularity.

Totally agree. If the speed limit is reasonable we should have photo radar, enforcement, etc. Some areas should be 30, others are right now set at 40 and they should be 50. Set the speed limit right and enforce.

(sorry about off topic...I was trying to say that we all have an obligation for safety including pedestrians and I don't think the slower speed limits will work in Toronto to lower fatalities with the pedestrian due to their attitudes here vs Europe in gernerality. This is shown by the above posts where they do not understand why I have a concern that pedestrians think they have a greater right to the road than cars just because they are jogging and are dressed in overpriced lululemon outfits)

...and for those who believe that pedestrians always have the right of way look at how many pedestrian fatalities result in arrests by drivers. There are quite a number where the driver is not charged because the pedestrian was not following the rules I mentioned above (plus common law).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Speed cameras would be of benefit, but the NIMBYs, speeders themselves, and others were so against it. Should we return to having speed cameras? Yes. Will it happen? Not unless they also increase the speed limits on the 400 series of highways first. May not happen even then.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

FYI, here are the current penalties in Ontario:

http://speedingontario.com/penalties.php

Even if you are caught speeding 15 km/hr over the so-called speed limit, the fine is $37.50 and no points. Speedometers are also intentionally set to show higher speeds than the car is actually traveling, so you could easily think you are driving another 5 km/hr faster than you actually are.

I personally wouldn't support a 30 limit anywhere if speed limits were strictly enforced. Try actually driving <30 for a sustained period of time; it will drive you nuts.

I would propose the following limits, strictly enforced:
- 40 on residential streets with street parking
- 50 on commercial streets in the old city (like Queen Street, Dundas, College, etc.) and suburban residential streets
- 60 on more wide open streets in the old city (University/Avenue, Bay, Dupont, etc.)
- 70-80 on suburban arterials
- 100 on Gardiner/DVP, 120 on 400 series highways in the city, 130 in rural areas

This will have the effect of lowering actual drivings speeds on residential and main streets, while maintaining those in the suburbs and on highways. Thoughts?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I would have the following:
- 40 on all residential streets with or without street parking
- 50 (signed) on commercial and arterial streets (including Queen Street, Dundas, College, University, Bay, Dupont)
- 60 (signed) on more wide open arterial streets (Lake Shore Blvd., Lawrence, Finch)
- 70 (signed) on the want-to-be-expressways (like Highway 27, Allen Road)
- 90 or 100 (adjustable signs) on the Gardiner and Don Valley
- 120 (adjustable signs) on the 400 series of highways
- 80 on rural roads

Adjustable signs would reduce the posted speed limits depending upon road or weather conditions, like construction, collisions, rain, sleet, snow, blizzards.

 

[lead82]

I would have the following:
- 40 on all residential streets with or without street parking
- 50 (signed) on commercial and arterial streets (including Queen Street, Dundas, College, University, Bay, Dupont)
- 60 (signed) on more wide open arterial streets (Lake Shore Blvd., Lawrence, Finch)
- 70 (signed) on the want-to-be-expressways (like Highway 27, Allen Road)
- 90 or 100 (adjustable signs) on the Gardiner and Don Valley
- 120 (adjustable signs) on the 400 series of highways
- 80 on rural roads

Adjustable signs would reduce the posted speed limits depending upon road or weather conditions, like construction, collisions, rain, sleet, snow, blizzards.

I generally agree with this approach. However, I suggest that simply adjusting speeds wont necessarily help the cause. The reason people speed on many local roads is due to the design of the road. North American roads are built and designed for speed. Wide lanes, wide turn radiuses supported, low pedestrian numbers in most suburban area and a bland/sterile environment creates urban highways. On residential streets, the safest speed is the one driven by 85% of drivers. So if most people are driving 70 in a 50 zone that's because the drivers feel it is safe to do so. Setting it arbitrarily to 40 may reduce speed for some but will frustrate many others. It wont lower the overall speed since we can't enforce every street all the time.

My preferred solution is to design roads for lower speed limits in areas where it is desired, and increase it on highways where it is desired. So for roads where we want a 30 limit, we should narrow it, add planters, dedicated bike lanes, parked cars. Roads like Park Road in Toronto have a low limit and people don't speed because they can't speed. There are parked cars and two cars can't pass each other with a parked car unless they are two smart cars.

On the flip side, our highways limits are super low. Our 400 series highways can safely be driven at 120km/hr, and almost 90% drive at this speed. 407 should be autobahn-style, with a faster limit or say 130km/hr as its design can easily support this.

Adjust the limits to suit the design, and then enforce strictly any variances. So if the 401 limit goes to 120km/hr, then 90% will be in compliance with the law. The 10% that speed over that should be fined heavily. Right now, 120km/hr is the unofficial limit anyway since cops will not pull you over for 120 as they would have to pull almost every car over. Instead they focus only on those driving 140+.