Roads: Montreal reduces city speed limits to 40 km/h

[ehlow]

People don't follow speed limits anyways. The speed they drive is determined by the design of the street, things like the width of the lanes/road and how far apart the traffic lights are.

Take away all speed limits and people would still drive slowly on King or Queen street because of the narrow lanes, parking, pedestrians, cyclists, streetcars, and turning vehicles.

Conversely, look at Sheppard between Allen Rd and Keele, wide fast road with very few intersections, everyone already drives above the limit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

People don't follow speed limits anyways. The speed they drive is determined by the design of the street, things like the width of the lanes/road and how far apart the traffic lights are.

Take away all speed limits and people would still drive slowly on King or Queen street because of the narrow lanes, parking, pedestrians, cyclists, streetcars, and turning vehicles.

Conversely, look at Sheppard between Allen Rd and Keele, wide fast road with very few intersections, everyone already drives above the limit.

I think the default speed limit should be 40 km/h or 30 km/h on all streets, unless it is signed otherwise. Such as having speed limits signs of 50 km/h or 60 km/h on major streets, else it will be the default. Minor side-streets would have the new default of 40 km/h or 30 km/h, without having a posted sign.

Currently, side-streets are overpopulated with signs displaying the non-default speed limit.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Everyone: The City of New York is also initiating a program to educate NYC drivers on the legal City speed limit: 30 mph...

See: www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/knowthespeedlimit.shtml

I have heard mentioned that speed zones in the vicinity of schools for example may get speed enforcement cameras to
further assist police with speed limits...Is there any plan in Toronto (or Montreal) to use cameras in this manner?

LI MIKE

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile, from this link,
Is Copenhagen Finally up To Speed on 30km/h Zones?

​

If Copenhagen was Paris or Barcelona, they would be doing this. Based on population density, this is where 30 km/h should be standard.​

Yeah, so I woke up to some promising news this morning here in Copenhagen. For all the modern liveable city goodness in the Danish capital, we are in the Bronze Age regarding speed limits in cities.

It's been lonely being one of the only people broadcasting the need for 30 km/h zones in Danish cities. Discovering that modernisation may be on the way is fantastic. The first 30 km/h zone was implemented in 1983 in Buxtehude, Germany. Over 150 cities in Europe have made 30 km/h the default speed in urban areas.

It is shocking that most of densely-populated Copenhagen isn't already a 30 km/h zone.

Buxtehude, Germany. 1983.

In Denmark, the Ministry of Justice published a document back in 1985 with the sexy name Justitsministeriets cirkulære nr. 72 af 5. juli 1985 making it possible for municipalities to adjust local speed limits. If "speed is a major cause of accident or risk on the stretch in question".

While that sounds like a good thing, they stated that it had to be proven that a reduction in speed would make dangerous stretches safer. Proving it has been a difficult task and the proof had to be in the form of complicated mathematical calculations. Weird to require calculations in order to save human lives, reduce injuries and make cities nicer. The next challenge was convincing the police to allow it. As we've written about before, the Danish police have bizarre powers and veto rights regarding traffic and they are not obliged to provide proof to support their veto.

The police in Copenhagen wouldn't even agree to 40 km/h zones, let alone the European Union standard of 30.

Today, however, the Ministry of Justice has announced that they are working on making it easier for municipalities to reduce speed limits. Let's hope they don't overcomplicate it and that they complete ignore the police on the subject. Until it's time to enforce the new speed limits. THEN they can move in and do their job.

We have written at length about 30 km/h zones here on the blog and we started a little Facebook group called 30 kbh (kbh is the short form for København - Copenhagen in Danish).

​

You can read 30 km/h Zones Work.

We also made an analysis of the effectiveness of 30 km/h zones that is freely downloadable and sharable. But here's the gist of it all:

30 zones reduce injury and death
A study carried out in London concluded that there was a 42% reduction in injuries after the implementation of 30 km/h zones. Younger children were the group with the most significant reduction in KSI’s (Killed & Seriously Injured). A 27% reduction was measured in Barcelona, which led to the city rolling out massive 30 km/h zones across the urban landscape.


The numbers are pretty clear here. If you get hit by a car doing 30 km/h your chance of dying is only 5%. At 50 km/h it is 50%.


As your speed increases in a car, your peripheral vision decreases drastically.

There is no cheaper or more effective way to save lives and reduce injury in cities. Period.

30 zones improve congestion
With slower speeds, the amount of stop-starts is reduced – if not eliminated – which improves flow and helps easy congestion.


30 zones are inexpensive
Changing speed limit signs is inexpensive while building out sidewalks and narrowing lane widths is more expensive. Nevertheless, it is cost efficient. In Switzerland, the annual savings on health costs due to 30 zones is €120 - €130 million.

30 zones reduce noise pollution
By reducing the speed by 10 km/h, a noise reduction of 2-3 dB is achieved. That is far cheaper than noise reducing asphalt. Read more in the article Noisy Danish Speed Demons.
Also, the noise of five cars at 50 km/h is the same as ten cars at 30 km/h. The noise of one large truck equals as much noise as 15 cars.

30 zones improve air quality
In an overall analysis of pollutants, 30 km/h zones reduce CO2 emissions by 15%, NOX emissions by 40% and CO emissions by 45%. Only hydrocarbons will increase, by 4%.

30 zones improve fuel efficiency
Since they improve flow, motorists will save on fuel and reduce C02 emissions.

30 zones improve local business
The traffic calming effect that 30 km/h zones have on neighbourhoods is remarkable. Pedestrians and cyclists increase and, since pedestrians and cyclists spend more money in shops, local business benefits. A study in the UK showed that people who walked to town centres spent an average of £91 (around €115) per week, while motorists would spent £64 (around €80) per week. Cyclists, too, are proven to spend more money in shops than motorists.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Queen’s Park considering lower speed limits in cities and towns


Always the follower, never the leader?

From The Star, at this link:

Queen’s Park is looking at ways to curb speed limits in Ontario cities and towns, including lowering the standard from 50 km/h.

In a bid to improve safety for pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists, Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca will begin “comprehensive consultations†with municipalities across the province to discuss changes.

That’s a policy U-turn from the Liberals’ position last September when the government said there were “no plans to change the default speed.â€

Sources say the province is acting upon the concerns from mayors, reeves, and civic councillors.

“No decision will be made without carefully considering all options and views from all stakeholders from across the province,†a government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Wednesday.

“We have heard from a number of municipalities — for example, Ottawa —that as urban areas continue to intensify, lower speeds may be appropriate in high pedestrian areas and have requested a change to the default speed limit to enhance pedestrian safety,†the source said.

Premier Kathleen Wynne’s government is looking at four options:

• Maintaining the current 50 km/h default speed limit.
• Changing the law to reduce that limit to 40 km/h.
• Allowing municipalities to set a default speed limit either of 50 km/h or 40 km/h within their boundaries and requiring the posting of signs at each entry point of the municipality.
• Permitting municipalities to set different default speed limits inside their boundaries or specific neighbourhoods and forcing them to the post signs at each entry point of the city or neighbourhood.

Del Duca’s consultations will include workshops, questionnaires and webinars for municipal officials this spring.

“Each municipality that participates in these consultations will have the opportunity to comment and provide input into the impacts of the proposed options for default speed limits, area and boundaries of application and how these could be implemented into their communities,†said the insider, adding the Association of Municipalities of Ontario is also expected to take part.

A coroner’s review into pedestrian deaths in 2010 urged the province to allow municipalities to lower the default speed limit to 40 km/h.

Currently, the Highway Traffic Act says the “speed limit on roads within most municipalities and in built-up areas is set at 50 km/h†and for highways – other than through towns and cities – the default is 80 km/h.

The World Health Organization has found that pedestrians hit by a car or truck travelling at around 45 km/h have a 50 per cent chance of being killed.

But those struck by a vehicle going 30 km/h or slower have a 90 per cent survival rate.

The WHO noted that a car going 50 km/h requires 13 metres to stop while one going 40 km/h can stop in less than 8.5 metres.

“An increase in average speed of 1 km/h typically results in a 3 per cent higher risk of a crash involving injury, with a 4–5 per cent increase for crases that result in fatalities,†the organization said.

 

[Electrify]

Saw this on my Facebook feed from the guy who wants to increase 400 series speed limits. He wasn't too thrilled at this...

From what I can tell, this would mostly affect local side streets anyways, which do not have marked speed limits. Ideally stop signs and road designs should keep cars from going much faster than 40-50km/h anyways, with the exception of dumb kids who remove their mufflers and look for any opportunity possible to test their 0-100 performance possible.

 

[Dan416]

If you reduce the local roads to 40 and increase the 400-series to 120, then I might buy this.

 

[UD2]

because pedestrians don't look both ways before crossing is not a very good reason for us to lower the speed limit. Making it easier to jay walk across a motorway would only create the wrong sense of safety for pedestrians.

In fact if we want to reduce pedestrian collisions, increasing the speed limit might help more. If people know that they may die, they will be much more careful.

For those who uses example about pedestrian injuries due to drivers running red lights, don't forget that drivers who disregard a traffic signal will probably disregard a speed limit as well.

 

[nfitz]

because pedestrians don't look both ways before crossing is not a very good reason for us to lower the speed limit. Making it easier to jay walk across a motorway would only create the wrong sense of safety for pedestrians.

In fact if we want to reduce pedestrian collisions, increasing the speed limit might help more. If people know that they may die, they will be much more careful.

For those who uses example about pedestrian injuries due to drivers running red lights, don't forget that drivers who disregard a traffic signal will probably disregard a speed limit as well.

I don't think anyone it talking motorways here ... there are talking city streets.

Given the evidence that at lower speeds, more pedestrians survive accidents, it's a no-brainer decision really.

And what's the big deal? So many of our side streets and even some arteries are already 40 km/hr. One can always post some arteries at 50 km/hr, at the same way some are already posted at 60 km/hr.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The unposted speed limit would be 40 km/h.

Posted speed limits would be on arterial roads displaying 50 or higher km/h. That would include Lake Shore Blvd., Don Valley Parkway, Gardiner Expressway, Yonge Street, Bloor Street, Eglinton Avenue, Steeles Avenue, etc.

Posted speed limits in school zones could display 30 km/h.

In other words, don't see a speed limit sign on the street you're driving on, the speed limit is 40 km/h. UNLESS there is a sign that displays otherwise.

 

[reaperexpress]

I don't think anyone it talking motorways here ... there are talking city streets.

Given the evidence that at lower speeds, more pedestrians survive accidents, it's a no-brainer decision really.

And what's the big deal? So many of our side streets and even some arteries are already 40 km/hr. One can always post some arteries at 50 km/hr, at the same way some are already posted at 60 km/hr.

And not just any city streets either, but specifically the ones which by definition are not intended for transportation purposes. Here's what SWOV (Transport research institute of The Netherlands) says about residential areas:

Residential areas are unbroken areas with a living, shopping, or work function. According to the
Sustainable Safety principles, the only cars allowed are those with their origin or destination in that
area. Through traffic should as much as possible make use of roads and streets that are meant for
that purpose. According to the road categorization, these are distributor roads, urban and rural main
roads with speed limits of 50 and 80 km/h respectively, and through roads, usually motorways and
trunk roads with a speed limit of 100 or 120 km/h.

And here's a more detailed overview of the two options the province is considering:
http://waterloobikes.ca/2015/01/30/what-would-a-40-kmh-limit-mean-for-ontario/

The key point there is that while we all bite each others' heads off about the statutory limit, that is only one of the options being considered. The other is to introduce a framework for speed limit "zones", just like the 30 Zones in Europe, and the 40 Secteurs in Québec.

I personally have a slight preference for a 30/40 zone system rather than a statutory change. That way we can co-ordinate the lower speed limits with street modifications to engrain the lower-speed nature of the streets. That said, 40 km/h is still pretty fast for a residential street, so maybe we could do both: 40 km/h default, with 30 km/h zones when the streets are redesigned.

And introducing this development concurrently with some new posted 120 km/h areas on the western 401 and 402 would really put us more in line with the industry standard:

30 km/h residential zones
40 km/h collector roads
50 km/h minor arterial roads
50-70 km/h major arterial roads
80 km/h rural roads
90 km/h rural highways
100 km/h urban/suburban expressways
120 km/h intercity expressways

 

[muller877]

I don't think anyone it talking motorways here ... there are talking city streets.

Given the evidence that at lower speeds, more pedestrians survive accidents, it's a no-brainer decision really.

And what's the big deal? So many of our side streets and even some arteries are already 40 km/hr. One can always post some arteries at 50 km/hr, at the same way some are already posted at 60 km/hr.

There are a lot of pedestrians without a brain to begin with. Just this weekend I was driving on Bloor St right by Islington. A 4 lane road (with right and left turn lanes making it very wide). The sidewalks were plowed and clear of ice. Some salt on it but nothing significant.

So where was a runner? On the road. And which way was he travelling? With traffic. Idiot. A danger to himself and the cars on the road that have to swerve to avoid him.

I'm in favour of reduced speeds on some road. But pedestrians will still cause problems...in Europe in general they are more careful than in Toronto. They rarely cross roads without looking even if they have the right of way. There needs to be a change in environment here were all 3 modes of transportation are polite to each other before we can start making roads safe.

...just as cars should be going a bit slower in neighbourhoods and how bikes should follow the rules of the road

(and the first thing I would do is to fine the Running Room for leading packs of people off the sidewalk)

 

[nfitz]

(and the first thing I would do is to fine the Running Room for leading packs of people off the sidewalk)

That's absurd. They don't lead them on arteries! Let's ban the cars instead. Roads aren't just for the minority in cars!

 

[muller877]

That's absurd. They don't lead them on arteries! Let's ban the cars instead. Roads aren't just for the minority in cars!

They are encouraging people to break the law. (and I've seen them 4 a breast on a fairly heavily used street and they didn't even get over when there was traffic backed up 10+ cars behind them)

They don't worry about cars even when they are passing you.
And they don't tell them to go against traffic which is the law as well....which gives them visibility for cars going the opposite direction.
And they don't understand that if a car is going 40 km/hr around a blind corner they should be jogging at 5 km/h right around the corner where no one can see you

Common sense people!

What I'm saying is that a lot of pedestrians are idiots in Toronto. No matter what speed limit is set we won't have reduced traffic fatalities until everyone takes responsibility for their own actions.

If its a street with pedestrians and I'm driving I look out. If I'm crossing a road as a pedestrian I look for cars. If I'm biking I watch out for everyone and follow the rules of the road.

It's too bad others don't do the same (or feel like its their god given right to ignore the sidewalk and create interactions with a 2000 lb moving hunks of metal and it wouldn't be their fault if they cause an accident)

Should we lower it to 40? Probably not as a blanket statement. The NIMBY's would want their street to be 40 but everywhere else 60. Would cause chaos for the local counsellor. A careful consideration region by region would help (either to slow down or speed up).

Now road diets (narrowing roads to slow down people, etc) or non-speed bump barriers (more one ways, cobble stone, etc) would be a better way to encourage people to slow down more.

 

[nfitz]

They are encouraging people to break the law. (and I've seen them 4 a breast on a fairly heavily used street and they didn't even get over when there was traffic backed up 10+ cars behind them)

They go past my house once a week for the last decade. Not once have I ever seen cars backed up.

I don't think there's any law against walking or running on a street. There's laws against crossing at lights, when the light is red. Can you point to the section of the traffic act that you think running on a street violates?