Steve X
Senior Member
If they tolled the 401, where will all the trucks go? Onto city streets creating noise at night and creating more traffic? Meanwhile all the sales goods increase in price as it takes longer to deliver things.
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sche
Active Member
Tolls will reduce congestion though. Trucking companies will save some money vs the status quo because of faster trips on a tolled 401. We could even make tolls lower for trucks to incentivize them to stay on the highway.
If tolls for trucks are low, the economics might work out such that it is cheaper to pay the toll and ship stuff faster (thus paying less in truck maintenance and driver wages) than to avoid the toll and ship stuff slower.
Northern Light
Superstar
Except that's not what happens.
We have modelling studies.
First, people are generally not going to take a 'free' road that takes 2x or more the time.
If you already commute 1 hour, you're not going to go for 2 to avoid a $6 toll.
So the majority of traffic will stay where it is (and the toll be priced to ensure this; as the government or private authority as the case may be wants to profit, which is function of margin x volume).
Second, of those who are open to switching, where a GO route would be a practical option, many will switch to that.
Some will also (over time) switch jobs or move in order to lessen their commute or commute cost.
At the end of the day you'll see some uptick on parallel roads, when they serve the same purpose, when there is spare capacity and when there are a lack of good transit alternatives.
But you will not see highway level traffic diverting on to local roads wholesale.
For an easy comparison, look at parking in downtown Toronto.
25 years ago; one could park all-day underground for maybe $8; and on a surface lot by Church or Peter or as little as $2.
As the price of parking has spiked, massively, and surface lots have disappeared; you have not seen people parking en masse on the street and feeding the proverbial meter, nor are people parking in private drives or illegal spaces in much greater numbers than they were, nor did demand for parking collapse, notwithstanding increases in price of 250-450% adjusted for inflation.
Instead, more people take transit; a number moved downtown to avoid the commute, and the rest are paying their increased parking tab.
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Undead
Senior Member
afransen
Senior Member
afransen
Senior Member
A truck and driver costs ~$75-100/hr. You won't send him on an arterial at 25kph to avoid 110 kph on the highway with a moderate toll.
Haljackey
Active Member
Huh? Toll the 401?
I need a 'free way' to drive to places like Kingston and Ottawa from London. If the 401 was tolled how am I supposed to do this?
If the 401 is tolled, remove the tolls on the 407. That's never goona happen but my argument stands: one needs to be free, and it's the 401.
Back on topic, this free route could be the 413, but it will need to go back to the 401 east of Toronto. It also might just be too far out of the way since it's quite a detour around Greater Toronto.
I need a 'free way' to drive to places like Kingston and Ottawa from London. If the 401 was tolled how am I supposed to do this?
If the 401 is tolled, remove the tolls on the 407. That's never goona happen but my argument stands: one needs to be free, and it's the 401.
Back on topic, this free route could be the 413, but it will need to go back to the 401 east of Toronto. It also might just be too far out of the way since it's quite a detour around Greater Toronto.
Northern Light
Superstar
Why do you need a 'free' route?
Do you also need free rent for a place to live? Free food so you eat? Free phone so you can talk?
It turns out most things you need, you also pay for.
I'm unclear on why a highway should be any different.
sacred
Active Member
Driving a car is anything but free. You’re paying for every part of it except the road.
afransen
Senior Member
Driving is not and has never been free.
I agree that the toll should be nominal off-peak. So you would be able to drive London to Ottawa and pay only a modest toll if you pass through Toronto off-peak (say, after 9pm).
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
Freeway tolls should be structured to discourage short distance travel, and reduce congestion; 400 series should not regularly have travel speed drop below 40 km/h. The US is currently working towards a fully interoperable toll system, the toll system in Ontario should be compatible with it, which will make it much more convenient for trucking. As the cost of freeway costs being transferred to user fees, gas taxes revenue in Ontario should be shifted to municipalities for transportation purposes.
Mercenary
Active Member
I think Trucks needs to be banned from highways during rush hours...from 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm. London, UK did this same thing and that really helped with traffic.
Or they should move all trucks to 407 and give them a dedicated truck lane. Province should negotiate with 407 to pay for trucks.
Or they should move all trucks to 407 and give them a dedicated truck lane. Province should negotiate with 407 to pay for trucks.
picard102
Senior Member
It's not. But we already pay for it.
junctionist
Senior Member
We could just toll all the freeways in one yearly fee like in certain countries like Austria and the Czech Republic. You have to have a sticker on your windshield that costs 92.50 Euros in Austria per year to use the country's freeways.
They have cameras that scan every vehicle for the stickers in random places. If you don't have the sticker, they mail you a ticket. If you don't want to pay for the sticker, you can still use local roads.
They have cameras that scan every vehicle for the stickers in random places. If you don't have the sticker, they mail you a ticket. If you don't want to pay for the sticker, you can still use local roads.
sacred
Active Member
But then you’re not paying per use and not helping reduce peak traffic...