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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

andrewpmk said:
Do you still support demolishing the Gardiner and risking a massive increase in traffic congestion after the entire subway system was shut down this morning? Fortunately subway service started up again around 7:45am, but I can't imagine what the traffic would have been like if it had continued for the entire morning rush hour. I was talking to people and mentioning this Gardiner demolition proposal, every single person thinks that it is a bad idea.

People are generally really clueless about municipal politics in this city, which is why Ford and a lot of incompetent city councillors manage to get elected, but I strongly suspect that few people support this (the poll a few days ago asked a loaded question which people didn't understand, that's why it got the result it did). I think that most people in this city think we need a larger subway system, don't like LRT very much, don't ride bikes, are fed up with the traffic congestion in this city, do not support demolishing the Gardiner, and generally support John Tory. Certainly people I have talked to seem to like the idea that Eglinton LRT should be a subway, etc.
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1. Yes.
2. Andrew, there is no doubt in my mind that everyone you talk to are like-minded individuals. I cannot fathom that 'every single person' anywhere but a retirement home or Markham could agree on the Gardiner. It's just not possible.
3. Ford got elected due to your vote, IIRC.
4. Anyone who thinks that (a) the Eglinton LRT is not underground through the central city and (b) was always planned to be that way is incredibly ill-informed about transit in Toronto, and got most or all of their transit information from the liar Rob Ford.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
You do realize that there are going to be 5 traffic lights, right? Even if traffic turns out to be under capacity for the new boulevard (which no study has found) you are going to get hit with at least a few of those lights. That's why the oft-quoted 3 minute travel time increase is so absurd; that's just one traffic light.
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You do realize that I don't really care, right? Its not like all 5 lights will be red (Though where do you get 5 lights from? I only see Cherry, Parliament, Sherbourne, and maybe Jarvis, though the on-ramp will likely allow vehicles to avoid that one). Currently, I can get from Jarvis/Sherbourne to Dan Leckie Way in a few minutes during rush hour with all the lights on Lakeshore, much faster than I can get to Spadina from Jarvis using the Gardiner. I already use Lakeshore, as do many other drivers, so these lights which I already stop for, as do many coming from the east, wont be anything new, and wont delay me any more than they currently do. (Not to mention they dont, as I already said Lakeshore is faster than the Gardiner anyway)
 
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tiffer24 said:
That's a very smug and entitled response on a day when thousands of commuters will not be able to even get to their place of employment...
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WTF? I was affected by the subway problems like everybody else today. We are talking about planning for a typical day in 2031, not a rainy day with subway problems in 2015.

Also, I would happily pay a toll to keep the Gardiner up. Of course that's never been on the table because that's not what removal advocates want. The cost is just a convenient excuse.

Tuscani, I just have zero faith in city administration at this point. They have bungled so many major projects that I have no confidence that this won't be a total cluster****. My experience on Lakeshore east of the Don is that there's often severe congestion all the way to Woodbine, yet the road is intentionally narrowed to two lanes because the city allowed houses to be built directly on Lakeshore. I can see something similar happen here.
 
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DarnDirtyApe said:
WTF? I was affected by the subway problems like everybody else today. We are talking about planning for a typical day in 2031, not a rainy day with subway problems in 2015.

Also, I would happily pay a toll to keep the Gardiner up. Of course that's never been on the table because that's not what removal advocates want. The cost is just a convenient excuse.

Tuscani, I just have zero faith in city administration at this point. They have bungled so many major projects that I have no confidence that this won't be a total cluster****.
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Im not basing my opinion on the information from the city admin anyway. Im basing it off my own day to day use of the area in question. Personally, watching the whole debate unfold as an actual user of this section of the Gardiner, I am completely dumbfounded by the pro-Gardiner side. Their opinion of what will happen if we remove the Gardiner makes absolutely no sense to me. I can't imagine it being much worse than it is today. It will likely add a few minutes to my commute when I leave outside of peak hours, but like I said, the amount of time is negligible to me. Simply not enough of an inconvenience to justify the cost.

Yes it will be nice to avoid 3 traffic lights, that just may happen to be red all at once... however, that isn't enough to convince me that we should be spending an extra $100 million to maintain the Gardiner as is, and an extra $400-$500 million to maintain it throughout its life span. There are much bigger priorities that I'd rather see that money go towards, such as the DRL which would eliminate my need to drive to work in the first place.
 
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nfitz said:
Three minutes on just one light?

I really don't think making up stuff and/or gross exaggeration helps the debate.
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Two minutes is probably more reasonable, but three minutes isn't unheard of for a large intersection. These news ones are almost certain to be set with suburban-style long cycle times due to the street width and existence of left turn phases in both directions. A three minute cycle time would seem a reasonable baseline expectation. Unless you're sitting first at the light there's also a delay in getting started once the light turns green.

City staff said that by adjusting the model they were able to improve the timing by a few minutes, but given past experience how credible is it to think that they're actually going to be on top of this? Not very.

Who knows, maybe it'll work out fine.
 
Has anyone thought about the additional cars it will create once the lands are developed? Those who just want to bypass the area will for sure take longer than the quoted time in all these reports? I also think a credible source to survey is the go bus drivers and greyhound bus drivers that drive though that stretch everyday.
 
So Tory is giving a speech at the Empire Club to support the position of the CAA and the CAA are sponsoring the event. Optics anyone!

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Tuscani01 said:
The intersections along University Avenue don't even last a minute. What makes you think these intersections will?
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Based on how things are set up at Lakeshore/Carlaw and Lakeshore/Leslie. I think the Lakeshore/Parliament intersection is also really slow; the rest I don't have any recollection. There are no dedicated turn phases on University, but new intersections are typically built to the suburban standard in order to minimize conflicts. There will be heavy left-turning traffic in all directions, particularly as the area is built out. Plenty of condo dwellers in the area will be driving to jobs in Mississauga and Markham...
 
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epcjay said:
Has anyone thought about the additional cars it will create once the lands are developed? Those who just want to bypass the area will for sure take longer than the quoted time in all these reports? I also think a credible source to survey is the go bus drivers and greyhound bus drivers that drive though that stretch everyday.
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Sure the new development will add additional cars, but there are factors on the other side that seemingly get no mention.

For instance, with the increased density, people are going to have to start making better locational decisions. IE. you can't live in the Beaches if you work in Port Credit.

Also, societal trends of less people obtaining their licences or wanting to drive. If putting a boulevard in means that we actually move ahead with the East Bayfront LRT, this could also eat up a lot of potential drivers, in the newly developed area.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The anti tear down crowd got their whale this morning. Nice going TTC.
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How so? The Gardiner was fine.

It took me 40 minutes to get to work (normally 15-20), but all of the delay occured from Bayview/Bloor to Eglinton. There was no issue with the portion of the Gardiner in question. Southbound DVP seemed normal to me too. Nothing out of the ordinary South of Bloor.
 
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