Rainforest
Senior Member
He may be obnoxious but he is not stupid.
It does not really matter for him what happens to Gardiner. But he found the reason to remind about himself.
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He may be obnoxious but he is not stupid.
It does not really matter for him what happens to Gardiner. But he found the reason to remind about himself.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
Do you still support demolishing the Gardiner and risking a massive increase in traffic congestion after the entire subway system was shut down this morning? Fortunately subway service started up again around 7:45am, but I can't imagine what the traffic would have been like if it had continued for the entire morning rush hour. I was talking to people and mentioning this Gardiner demolition proposal, every single person thinks that it is a bad idea.
People are generally really clueless about municipal politics in this city, which is why Ford and a lot of incompetent city councillors manage to get elected, but I strongly suspect that few people support this (the poll a few days ago asked a loaded question which people didn't understand, that's why it got the result it did). I think that most people in this city think we need a larger subway system, don't like LRT very much, don't ride bikes, are fed up with the traffic congestion in this city, do not support demolishing the Gardiner, and generally support John Tory. Certainly people I have talked to seem to like the idea that Eglinton LRT should be a subway, etc.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
What a stupid argument:
1. The subway carries 15x more people during the morning rush than the Gardiner East does
2. We don't build infrastructure for once a year shutdowns
1. The subway carries 15x more people during the morning rush than the Gardiner East does
2. We don't build infrastructure for once a year shutdowns
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
ksun
Senior Member
rude maybe but well said.
Also totally unfounded. Looking out my window at 8:35 am; Gardiner EB moving well, not nearly at capacity; Gardiner WB slow but moving. This on a day with horrible weather where there are often accidents and weather-related slowdowns. Add to that the subway not working for a while which could have caused some people to drive that wouldn't normally. And yet, it's not traffic chaos. Imagine that. But yeah, let's keep the Gardiner up just in case.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
So, not chaos = overcapacity? Sad that Toronto has to come this point where we expect (nay, encourage) a state of constant gridlock on our roads. How about investing in more transit instead? Still waiting for shovels in the ground for the DRL...
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Too bad the Gardiner cannot be put into a trench. While it isn't a grand boulevard, at least it will come down and more people would be satisfied
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Quit putting words in people's mouths. No one is saying we want constant gridlock. No one is even saying the removal option will lead to gridlock (Except for people like you who are simply not looking at the facts and allowing emotion to guide their opinion).
We're simply saying there is more than enough capacity to handle the little traffic that uses the Eastern Gardiner today. The facts show a negligible increase in commute times from most of the city (likely due to the traffic lights and slower speed limit). None of the facts say that a widened lakeshore with a non existent Gardiner would be over or at capacity.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
PinkLucy literally said "Gardiner WB slow but moving" and "and yet, it's not traffic chaos" implying that we don't need the current level of capacity that the Gardiner provides because it's not "traffic chaos". I am not putting words in anyone's mouth here.
How many times do people have to raise valid concerns about the studies? Remember how they assumed full build-out of all transit including the DRL and improvements in GO?
I'm starting to realize that no amount of arguing will change any minds here; you guys just don't care that a large number of people will be negatively affected.
My point was in reference to another poster's comments that days like today (subway meltdown) mean traffic chaos, particularly if the Gardiner were to be taken down. I simply pointed out that even though today was not a great day given weather and transit conditions, things are moving. So no, I don't expect traffic chaos, I'm just saying that the sky isn't falling as those opposed to the Gardiner's removal like to claim.
Also, a couple of posters have frequently posted how the Gardiner is always backed up, and that is absolutely, categorically not true. Both directions are moving along quite nicely now, as is Lake Shore.
Yes, we need better transit. No, there won't be a complete meltdown if we remove a SMALL PORTION of the Gardiner.
Also, a couple of posters have frequently posted how the Gardiner is always backed up, and that is absolutely, categorically not true. Both directions are moving along quite nicely now, as is Lake Shore.
Yes, we need better transit. No, there won't be a complete meltdown if we remove a SMALL PORTION of the Gardiner.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Newsflash, It was slow everywhere this morning. That has nothing to do with traffic volume. The Gardiner could've been empty and it would still be slow today. It's called driving according to the weather conditions. That's not chaos... its proper driving.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
And don't even try saying I don't care about the people who will be affected. I am one of them. I use the Eastern Gardiner and South DVP on a daily basis. It will barely have any effect at all based on my own day to day observations of how the Eastern Gardiner operates today.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
You do realize that there are going to be 5 traffic lights, right? Even if traffic turns out to be under capacity for the new boulevard (which no study has found) you are going to get hit with at least a few of those lights. That's why the oft-quoted 3 minute travel time increase is so absurd; that's just one traffic light.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
Now you're putting words in my mouth; I never said anything about adding highway capacity. Nobody's advocating a new highway, merely the maintenance of an existing one that doesn't even run through an existing residential area.
It's not really about my extra 10 minutes anyway - I don't drive to work. It's about making it possible for people to get around the GTHA in a reasonable amount of time by car, train, bus, everything.