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DSC
Superstar
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An EA looks at options and evaluates them.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
smably
Senior Member
We get it, you have made up your mind and do not wish to be confused with facts.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
What facts? All I'm stateinng is what I see happening if we take down the Gardiner Express way. I don't see why we need a EA to tell us it's a bad idea. It's only my opinion so it doesn't matter really because I haven't read some report that I'm sure not many people in the city have read either and have the same or different opinions.
drum118
Superstar
As someone who support the removal of the expressway, so what if it means an extra 5-10 minutes traveling time, since most are 905 and Toronto Suburbia drivers in the first place who refuse to use transit in the first place as single driver.
The 401 was design to handle traffic crossing and bypassing the city.
The original design was to do the same thing with the Gardiner until the Scarborough section was can. Then the remaining section from Leslie to the Don was torn down and no real change to traffic on the grade section.
One only has to look at Boston Tunnel that well over budget and stills has many issues with it today. The SF removal of their expressway was caused by nature and the best thing for it. There are many places around the world where expressways have been remove and they are better off today for doing. At the same time, other cities are looking at doing the same thing, since they want the cars out of the city core in the first place. There are a number of cities removing removing road or reducing their size to get cars out of the city core with a number having users fee to enter the area.
People push subways to get transit off the roads since it slow the cars down and make transit riders feel like ants or rats underground. I am not anything that lives and travel underground and prefer to see the sunlight and weather above ground even though travel time is longer..
As to when the Bay ramp will come down, I have no timetable of it and look forward to see it go since it blocks pedestrians from using the east sidewalk.
When I first started to used the Gardiner to get to the Shaw and Dupont area, it took me 35 minutes. Today, it would be almost 100 minutes and too long for me.
Having said what I said, there are people who are force to be single drivers because there is no employment in the area they live in as well lack of good transit, if there is any at all.
Stress dealing with today traffic is killing people one way or another and why I kill the car off for me because of the stress.
The 401 was design to handle traffic crossing and bypassing the city.
The original design was to do the same thing with the Gardiner until the Scarborough section was can. Then the remaining section from Leslie to the Don was torn down and no real change to traffic on the grade section.
One only has to look at Boston Tunnel that well over budget and stills has many issues with it today. The SF removal of their expressway was caused by nature and the best thing for it. There are many places around the world where expressways have been remove and they are better off today for doing. At the same time, other cities are looking at doing the same thing, since they want the cars out of the city core in the first place. There are a number of cities removing removing road or reducing their size to get cars out of the city core with a number having users fee to enter the area.
People push subways to get transit off the roads since it slow the cars down and make transit riders feel like ants or rats underground. I am not anything that lives and travel underground and prefer to see the sunlight and weather above ground even though travel time is longer..
As to when the Bay ramp will come down, I have no timetable of it and look forward to see it go since it blocks pedestrians from using the east sidewalk.
When I first started to used the Gardiner to get to the Shaw and Dupont area, it took me 35 minutes. Today, it would be almost 100 minutes and too long for me.
Having said what I said, there are people who are force to be single drivers because there is no employment in the area they live in as well lack of good transit, if there is any at all.
Stress dealing with today traffic is killing people one way or another and why I kill the car off for me because of the stress.
DSC
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On UT there are lots of opinions, some I agree with, some I don't. I try to keep an open mind and when someone posts a reasoned comment that I initially disagree with I do reevaluate my initial opinion. On sites like this, we generally know nothing about a posters qualifications or experience and judge their opinions by their posts. You post quite often and, on this subject, seem uninterested in facts and studies. Of course, one can (and should) disagree with experts but your opinion - on this and other subjects - is not likely to sway others if you are proud of your ignorance about alternatives.
darth_freeman
Active Member
No one disagrees with you that removing it will worsen traffic.
They just think the cost benefits and redevelopment potential outweigh the negatives.
Toronto council obviously thinks differently as they voted to keep/hybrid-ize it.
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
John Tory? Is that you? Lived experiences over facts from experts?
DonValleyRainbow
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The EA hasn't been approved, and even though the city is moving forward with plans, they cannot execute said plans unless they have EA approval. That makes it a very relevant point.
You have an idea that taking the Gardiner, while a bad idea, should still be done because that's your opinion. That's called ideology. Many others hate the Gardiner because they subjectively think it is an eyesore and caters to the 'wrong' people. That's also ideology.
An EA is supposed to cut through ideology and objectively look at the best solution to address the goals set out at the beginning, and have the least impact on the natural, social, cultural and built environments. There's still room for argument and interpretation, but I think others are reacting to the fact that you are not engaging in that debate, and settling for ideology.
If anyone wants to get beyond that, may I point everyone to the broader Gardiner Expressway thread.
ADRM
Senior Member
Congratulations on completely erasing your credibility in just three short posts.
Filip
Senior Member
Has anyone actually taken those city reports with a grain of salt? Ie: demolishing the Gardiner will add 3 mins to a typical commute... simple statement, right?
However, you close one offramp (and keep all through lanes the same amount) and traffic backs up to Kipling and Lake Shore looks like you're evacuating the city through it.
However, you close one offramp (and keep all through lanes the same amount) and traffic backs up to Kipling and Lake Shore looks like you're evacuating the city through it.
DonValleyRainbow
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Because that offramp and those streets (York, Bay, Yonge) are the main destination for westbound communters. Gardiner East is about westbound traffic going past downtown, and eastbound traffic that has the option of getting downtown via Richmond.
Also, existing vs. future traffic, with anticipated changes in mode split.
salsa
Senior Member
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Filip
Senior Member
I still think it was a strange conclusion, and one I've seen debunked a couple of times now (on UT as well).