News   Dec 20, 2024
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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

I agree the Gardiner is a hideous blight but given that tunnelling isn't economically viable and our suburban-dominated council has voted to rebuild the wretched thing, maybe the focus of discussion should shift to tolling it and minimizing the impact and footprint of the on and off ramps.
 
Euphoria isn't the only one that considers the Gardiner a hideous blight on this city whose burial would open up vast opportunities to transform this city.

We had the opportunity to tear down the eastern Gardiner and didn't do it. We're not going to bury it, as it's too expensive and not feasible even if we could afford it. Can we move on?

Has there been any new news on the naming of the Gardiner under-park?
 
Euphoria isn't the only one that considers the Gardiner a hideous blight on this city whose burial would open up vast opportunities to transform this city.
I actually feel the same way, however, the opportunity cost of burying the Gardiner is huge. I'd rather we build a full DRL and other rapid transit with our limited resources.
 
I actually feel the same way, however, the opportunity cost of burying the Gardiner is huge. I'd rather we build a full DRL and other rapid transit with our limited resources.

Agreed. Just wanted to voice my support of the position that the Gardiner is fugly.
 
The Gardiner is closed due to construction this weekend.

Like the DVP closure, I expect this will cause severe traffic congestion all over the city. Also, the GO bus system will be hugely disrupted and many GO buses will not serve Union Station and will serve Port Credit or Aldershot instead.
 
... and apparently two westbound lanes of lake shore are closed for the copeland hydro station too right now.
 
I heard that they were opening those lanes during the closure. Traffic on Lake Shore is pretty light right now.
 
The Gardiner is closed due to construction this weekend.

Like the DVP closure, I expect this will cause severe traffic congestion all over the city. Also, the GO bus system will be hugely disrupted and many GO buses will not serve Union Station and will serve Port Credit or Aldershot instead.

Including the tearing down of the Dowling overpass.

They only put it up by 1920's. How will the people walk to Sunnyside Beach now from South Parkdale?
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Guess they'll go back to a level crossing again, as they did back in 1910.
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Wonder if they'll go back to two railway tracks, instead of four?

Actually, the Dowling overpass over the Gardiner Expressway would have been from 1958. The railway overpass portion is from the 1920's.
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The Dowling bridge in 1920, looking south to the residencies in the neighourhood before the "improvement" of the 1950's.
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To the point someone made a couple pages ago about the Lake Shore actually being a worse pedestrian experience offender, I think that's right (though we're talking about two pretty awful offenders). I took some tourists in from Europe down to the waterfront from the CN Tower/roundhouse plaza area on the weekend. They loved what has been done with the waterfront/harbourfront, but were floored at just how difficult/unwelcoming the walk to the waterfront is ("oh, I didn't know Robert Moses also worked in Toronto" was a comment).

Given that a complete teardown of the Gardiner is both probably unfeasible in the next numerous generations and, perhaps more importantly, that it mightn't actually accomplish many of the goals advocates of a teardown seek, that got me thinking about alternatives, expressly with the goal of opening up the waterfront to pedestrian traffic.

The only semi-real alternatives my mind could muster were some sort of elevated pedestrian bridge experience (maybe one that's less traditional ped bridge and perhaps brings in some High Line-esque qualities to its design) on either York or somewhere slightly west thereof that would run over LS but under the Gardiner or, of course more ambitiously, a similar treatment that actually ran over the Gardiner at one of those same junctions. The latter conjured a proposal I recall from the Gardiner East debate.
 
The Gardiner was shut down for repairs all weekend. What other work did they do? It looks like they gave it a cleaning and repainted the lane markings.
 
To the point someone made a couple pages ago about the Lake Shore actually being a worse pedestrian experience offender, I think that's right (though we're talking about two pretty awful offenders). I took some tourists in from Europe down to the waterfront from the CN Tower/roundhouse plaza area on the weekend. They loved what has been done with the waterfront/harbourfront, but were floored at just how difficult/unwelcoming the walk to the waterfront is ("oh, I didn't know Robert Moses also worked in Toronto" was a comment).

Given that a complete teardown of the Gardiner is both probably unfeasible in the next numerous generations and, perhaps more importantly, that it mightn't actually accomplish many of the goals advocates of a teardown seek, that got me thinking about alternatives, expressly with the goal of opening up the waterfront to pedestrian traffic.

The only semi-real alternatives my mind could muster were some sort of elevated pedestrian bridge experience (maybe one that's less traditional ped bridge and perhaps brings in some High Line-esque qualities to its design) on either York or somewhere slightly west thereof that would run over LS but under the Gardiner or, of course more ambitiously, a similar treatment that actually ran over the Gardiner at one of those same junctions. The latter conjured a proposal I recall from the Gardiner East debate.
You should've taken them to Queens Quay via the PATH. It's quite a pleasant experience and you don't even realize you're crossing the Gardiner.
 
Can someone explain to me why Montreal was able to bury its downtown expressway, host an Olympics, and host an Expo, yet Toronto, a much bigger city with more economic heft and faster growth, cannot accomplish one of these things? Is a pedestrian bridge really the best we can do? By the sounds of it, maybe we can't even do that. Please keep in mind that city council can overturn the hybrid option with an up and down vote. Nothing is in stone as of yet. Don't throw in the towel so quickly. Burying the Gardiner does not have to be a pricey "Big Dig." As far as I'm concerned, even at that price Boston's makeover was worthwhile. Keep in mind that burying subway will cost over a billion per kilometer. This is the cost of doing business. The private sector and condo developers have done very well in Toronto. It's time the public received something in return. Between tolls, private sponsorships, the synergy of combining construction with burial of the DRL, and rededication of funds from the planned hybrid option, I'm sure we could make a go of a much better expressway and transit option for the city that meets our long term goals in a number of areas. It's really up to you and the citizens to advocate. If you don't push for better options, you won't get them.
 

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