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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

My only hope is that when they design the new waterfront blvd, that the median is made wide enough to accommodate future digging and construction of a subway line. A Lakeshore subway from the DVP to Dufferin could act as our DRL.

The money doesn't need to be made available today for it, but planning ahead can save us a ton of money and headaches in the future when we do decide to build it.
 
I suspect that this "new" partial approach is not one of the models in the multi-million dollar studies spent on consultants over the last few years - to no avail.

It isn't so much a problem of hiring consultants as it is for someone in an official position finally making a decision.
 
I am in favour of this project but I fear that the 5 year environmental impact study will be the project's death sentence. Long studies can be victims of politics, and are subject to the whims of succeeding administrations, councils, heads of state who should not matter in local affairs but somehow do ... and what have you.

Our dear Mayor Miller should come out in favour of skipping the environmental impact study. Unheard of, yes, but we know what the environmental study will reveal already. I am afraid our mayor doesn't know his politics very well at all.

Mayor Miller -- this is a super idea, just get it done.
 
I can spare everyone five years and give you the results of the environmental assessment right now:

1. The eastern lakefront is going to look a whole lot better;
2. A lot of gulls are going to have to find someplace else to poo.
 
I can spare everyone five years and give you the results of the environmental assessment right now:

1. The eastern lakefront is going to look a whole lot better;
2. A lot of gulls are going to have to find someplace else to poo.

3. The berm on which the railway runs will remain, and continue to block access to the waterfront - but for the few holes we've dug under it. <Golf clap>
 
I've been a transportation consultant, and in my opinion the whole process is a sham! It goes like this:

City: We want to build a new "x".
Consultant: But it will cause traffic chaos!
City: Just try to come up with other worse alternatives.
Consultant: We'll give you five alternatives so bad that they'd never be considered anyway.
City: So "x" is the best out of those alternatives?
Consultant: Yes.
City: Therefore, we should clearly do "x".
 
TKTKTK:

Except that when they were tearing shit down to build St. Jamestown they likely phrased it the same way you did with the Gardiner. They were tearing down our Monsterous blight, because there was no way we could be modern with all those run down houses around :p And why should anyone care? They were leveling a monstrosity to build a neighbourhood for young professionals. Turned out well, eh?

That is a false analogy of SJT = Gardiner removal. Beyond that, why not use some positive comparison of expressway removal from elsewhere?

Which could turn out to be only a temporary state. Given that that part of the Gardiner hardly leads anywhere right now, it still manages 10,000 cars a day. Once the area becomes something again - might that not increase?

Or it might not; or that maybe the area won't be some "serious something again" without the Gardiner going. So which option should be plan for? Removal of an eyesore, or hope that eyesore won't reduce the desirability of an area to moot the point of it being something that would necessitate something like the Gardiner? (which itself is also a questionable argument, considering there are plenty of successful neighbourhoods that do not have direct expressway access)

And we can do all of those things (as we've already done with neighbourhoods like the Esplanade and along Queens Quay) while still leaving the Gardiner in place.

Queen's Quay is a rather poor example of what should be done partially because of the negative effects of the Gardiner; as to St. Lawrence - don't forget the area benefited immensely from the direct connections it have with functional neighbourhoods to the North and West - such is NOT the case with EBF.

AoD
 
It would be replaced by a street level boulevard. Let me try to dig up some concept art. I'll update the post when I find it.

Edit:

Found it:
This document here describes the preferred option for dealing with the Gardiner Expressway. The phase being discussed in this thread is actually supposed to be the last phase of the plan, but I suppose they've changed the implementation timetable. The concept art starts on page 33, while the details of the "Great Street" option starts on page 20. Hope this helps.

In short, Lake Shore would be transformed into University Avenue. It would be wide as all heck, but at least it would have stuff on the sides.

When I opened the PDF, for a moment I thought the subtitle was "Terraforming Toronto", but alas, 'twas only "Transforming".
 
From the Star:

Teardown an 8-year project
A proposal to tear down part of the Gardiner Expressway will kill plans to extend Front St., Toronto's deputy mayor said this morning.
May 30, 2008 06:51 PM
Deena Kamel
Staff Reporter

It will take up to eight years and approximately $ 200-300 million to tear down the East Gardiner Expressway from Jarvis St. to the DVP, including up to five years to conduct an environmental assessment of the project, Waterfront Toronto announced today in a press conference.

On June 12, the Waterfront Toronto board will make a recommendation supporting the East Gardiner tear-down through an individual environmental assessment that will analyze and clarify the technical issues and impacts, Waterfront Toronto Chair Mark Wilson said.

It will also recommend the re-allocation of funds from the Front St. extension to the improvement of the waterfront.

City council will discuss the proposal on July 14 and 15.

Tearing down the eastern stretch of the Gardiner will allow the development of surrounding communities, create high-quality urban design and support new transit initiatives, Wilson said.

The impact on traffic and travel time includes an added 2 minutes from Queen and Woodbine to King and Bay during the morning peak hours and a reduction in travel speed by 12.5 percent, Wilson said. The east end of the Gardiner is the least congested part of the expressway. Repairs cost the city about $6-10 million annually, according to Waterfront Toronto statistics.

"This decision is a decision about the future vision for the city. We need a vision that embraces and leads the global changes we're a part of, not one that tries to preserve patterns and habits of the past," Wilson said. "Taking down the Gardiner is a bold step and a declaration that Toronto is ready to be part of that future."

Waterfront Toronto CEO John Campbell described the project as "realistic and doable now."

Early proposals had raised the idea of tearing down the Gardiner from Spadina Ave.

“We just don't have the funds,” Campbell said of that idea. “It's too big a bite."

Long-serving former Metro Toronto roads and traffic commissioner Sam Cass disagrees with the plan.

"It doesn't make any sense. It never has,” he said. “Talking about (the expressway) some sort of physical or visual obstruction doesn't either," Cass said.

He argued that the Gardiner does not block access from Front St to Lakeshore Blvd. He asked planners to show him the precise point of blockage and he was pointed to one ramp near Church St. Cass said, adding that it was not in front of any vehicle or pedestrian crossing.

"Talking about obstruction is stupid, because it doesn’t. I've looked up and down and I have asked many planners to show where it obstructs. With all the new condominiums there you can hardly find it." Cass exclaimed. "They had trouble finding it because of all the condos." He added that the condos are solid constructions, whereas the Gardiner was elevated above the travelled part of the road.

Architect Calvin Brook of Brook McIlroy Inc., who studied the issue of transforming the Gardiner in 2003, explained that demolishing the eastern section makes sense because the elevated Gardiner is replaced with an elevated road and that the absence of the expressway would result in "spectacular property," which is "logical from a real estate perspective."

However, tearing down the section between Spadina Ave. and Jarvis St. "won’t work." Brook said, adding that it defeats the purpose to create a better connection to the waterfront. He pointed that a 12-lane highway would create "hostile traffic" to pedestrians and "frustrated drivers." Brook added that the Gardiner was "not maintained properly" and "not treated as civic architecture."

The solution, he believes, is to transform the Gardiner through better lighting and utilize the space of open dirt under it through landscape planting, setting up flea markets, and skateboard parks.

The Canadian Automobile Association opposes the demolition. The 12-lane highway, different from expressway-style traffic, would also lead to further congestion, driver frustration, safety concerns, and pollution, said spokesperson Faye Lyons.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/434236
___

He argued that the Gardiner does not block access from Front St to Lakeshore Blvd. He asked planners to show him the precise point of blockage and he was pointed to one ramp near Church St. Cass said, adding that it was not in front of any vehicle or pedestrian crossing.

"Talking about obstruction is stupid, because it doesn’t. I've looked up and down and I have asked many planners to show where it obstructs. With all the new condominiums there you can hardly find it." Cass exclaimed. "They had trouble finding it because of all the condos." He added that the condos are solid constructions, whereas the Gardiner was elevated above the travelled part of the road.

Cass should perhaps stick to engineering and avoid the area of urban design. In case he want to do otherwise, perhaps he should acquaint himself with some VERY early work by Kevin Lynch on "edges". Try walking along the Gardiner side of the various condos and there isn't any barrier effect at work? Right.

Then again, from the sound of it, his definition of "barrier" meaning being able physically pass through something - you can have a space just wide enough for a one-person to pass through and it still won't be a barrier.

AoD
 
Oh Lynch, how I didn't read you and totally bombed that quiz...

Seriously though, the Gardiner is a Lynchian edge, or at least that's what I'm told (see above statement).
 
I've read the articles and saw the pdfs of the WaterfronToronto, but I haven't found any discussion on how the intersection of Lakeshore/Gardiner with the DVP would look like.

My suggestion: build a massive roundabout at the intersection, and put up a landmark monument in the middle of it.
 
Oh Lynch, how I didn't read you and totally bombed that quiz...

Seriously though, the Gardiner is a Lynchian edge, or at least that's what I'm told (see above statement).

Yeah, "edgy" and "Lynchian" go together, all right...
 
I think that whatever Toronto does, based on its own graphs, they have to accomodate for GO Buses. They showed clearly that GO was the one mode of transportation to downtown that was increasing a lot compared to both cars and TTC.

Based on Milton buses coming in from the west and take the York St. exit, I believe they should tear it down just up till there. I don't want my bus ride to take any longer than need be. As for the other GO buses, I don't know where they come from, but I don't think they matter as much :)

Anyhow, I do like the idea of a boulevard to replace the Gardiner, rather than relocating the Gardiner on that rail berm, although I guess that would satisfy some drivers. Removing the Gardiner would be good for that area. I also like the idea of leaving room for a subway line.

Of course, what we really need to do is focus on making GO a better way of getting around town for all drivers.
 

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