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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

I feel like something to improve the aesthetics of the Gardiner / Lake Shore needs to be done ASAP, regardless if it's to be torn down. It doesn't have to be costly, or eco-friendly. Just something to brighten it up. It's a cold, cold place under there. Even in summer it can feel like a bitter blustery winter day - for pedestrians and drivers alike. Makes one long for the old green paint, rust, and sodium lighting. At least that was colourful, shabby as it was.

Murals, cedar panels, lighting...or just painting the columns a colour that isn't grey can improve things immensely.
 
WislaHD said:
You can (and should) improve the Lake Shore and the pedestrian experience all you want, but at the end of the day chunks of the Gardiner are still falling down and something needs to be done about that.
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This is what keeps me in the Remove camp. Trying to keep the Gardiner together is a ridiculous (and I feel futile) exercise. Removing the Gardiner removes a liability, improves safety and reduces maintenance costs.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
This is what keeps me in the Remove camp. Trying to keep the Gardiner together is a ridiculous (and I feel futile) exercise. Removing the Gardiner removes a liability, improves safety and reduces maintenance costs.
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The repairs completed in the past were done on the cheap, done poorly and the rest is the crumbing Gardiner we see now. There are many reasons for this: lack of awareness, budgets, poor repair design, etc. It appears the City has finally started to figure out they cant simply just keep patching the Gardiner and expect everything to be fine. As you can see with the current repair areas whole sections of the deck are being repaired at once. This will provide for better repairs, the ability to complete the installation of a new waterproofing system (to protect the concrete) and should reduce the likelihood of crumbing concrete in these areas. I haven't bothered to actually look at the full extent of these repairs (not sure if they are also repairing the support columns/beams) but i hope it is more than just the deck - but repairing the deck is critical.

This type of repair strategy is required for the full length of the elevated portion of the Gardiner - look forward to many many years of partial closures.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
My understanding is that they are basically completely replacing both the deck and steel girders (green) and replacing them with precast concrete units.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._solution_to_repair_gardiner_much_faster.html

Definitely more definitive than previous repairs - though the columns and transverse beams stays, and that's where a lot of the shedding had occurred.

AoD
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I figured they had to be doing precast, just a lot of the deck replacement work must be done at odd hours so you wont really see the hoisting.
 
CapitalSeven said:
You're very probably right. The planners have spent years gathering examples from other cities, doing studies, and commissioning visioning, but this will be decided the way the Scarborough Subway was, but with a lot more input from large commercial interests. Shouting, pounding, class warfare, and facts banished.

That said, cutting the existing portion from Cherry to Yonge down to four lanes, getting rid of most of the ramps, then improving the Lakeshore, would probably be a decent compromise.
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Those prior studies were also done with a political goal in mind - trying to convince people that the surface option would be okay. That's why they sliced and diced the numbers to make it seem like that section was barely used (sure, as a percentage of total commuters into downtown) but ignored the fact that in absolute numbers the volumes are quite significant, and there are few alternatives particularly for off-peak trips that don't end downtown.
 
TransitPolicyChanger said:
I figured they had to be doing precast, just a lot of the deck replacement work must be done at odd hours so you wont really see the hoisting.
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That's because the current works being performed by Grascan/Torbridge is just for the deck replacement, it's only a 66 million dollar contract.

That article is regarding the proposition of using this method to repair the Gardiner, which still had to be decided on at the time of the contract award to Grascan.
 
The problem with lake shore Blvd is that it is the only "local" street alternative to the Gardiner. Unpopular as it may be but having connections from the gardiner to the once planned front st extension, and even to king st in Parkdale would remove the congestion along the lakeshore/gardiner. However at the expense of putting traffic on front st and king st.
 
The Gardiner should be removed. With all the transit expansion underway, we won't need the transportation capacity. Maintaining an expressway is costly. It creates a harsh urban environment for pedestrians and cyclists. With the billions we're spending on transit expansion, the Gardiner will turn out to be a redundant and wasteful piece of infrastructure. It'll be replaced by a grand boulevard that will be simple to maintain and won't ever shed chunks of concrete onto public spaces.
 
junctionist said:
The Gardiner should be removed. With all the transit expansion underway, we won't need the transportation capacity. Maintaining an expressway is costly. It creates a harsh urban environment for pedestrians and cyclists. With the billions we're spending on transit expansion, the Gardiner will turn out to be a redundant and wasteful piece of infrastructure. It'll be replaced by a grand boulevard that will be simple to maintain and won't ever shed chunks of concrete onto public spaces.
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In my experience walking from Front to the lake in many locations, the Gardiner is neither a pedestrian nor cyclist issue. It's the Lakeshore and GO tracks that are an issue.

If this primarily about about harsh environments for pedestrians and cyclists, then surely the answer is removing both the GO tracks and Lakeshore, rather than the Gardiner.
 
nfitz said:
In my experience walking from Front to the lake in many locations, the Gardiner is neither a pedestrian nor cyclist issue. It's the Lakeshore and GO tracks that are an issue.

If this primarily about about harsh environments for pedestrians and cyclists, then surely the answer is removing both the GO tracks and Lakeshore, rather than the Gardiner.
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I agree. And even walking under the GO Tracks, while not exactly a pleasant experience, is certainly not hazardous for pedestrians in the same way that crossing Lakeshore is.
 
Lake Shore is an issue because of the Gardiner. Drivers can only get on and off the Gardiner near certain intersections, resulting in a lot of turns at places where pedestrians have to cross Lake Shore. It's also a dark and loud environment with noise bouncing off the overhead structure.

Walking under the railway corridor isn't an issue. The underpasses are generally well lit. There are no turning vehicles or ramps. Lake Shore would otherwise be like University Avenue.
 
junctionist said:
Lake Shore is an issue because of the Gardiner. Drivers can only get on and off the Gardiner near certain intersections, resulting in a lot of turns at places where pedestrians have to cross Lake Shore. It's also a dark and loud environment with noise bouncing off the overhead structure.

Walking under the railway corridor isn't an issue. The underpasses are generally well lit. There are no turning vehicles or ramps. Lake Shore would otherwise be like University Avenue.
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junctionist said:
Lake Shore is an issue because of the Gardiner.
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Lakeshore is an issue because it's so wide. Crossing the 7 to 8 lanes at Leslie is not fun, and until recently required a 2-stage crossing - and that's nothing to do with the Gardiner. Isn't the planned cross-section even wider west of the Don?
 
Car traffic will fall with the substantial transit expansion that's planned and under construction. The grand boulevard is a flexible solution in that it can be narrowed to expand the pedestrian realm as traffic on the Lake Shore falls. If the Gardiner is rebuilt, it'll be around for a long time.
 
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