News   Mar 28, 2024
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Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

Jarvis St. / Gardiner deck replacement in 48 hours! It is possible.
I’ll have to remember that the next time my favourite country road bridge is out for replacement with summer long detours or delays from those single lane traffic lights.
I guess a lot of planning, prep, local fabrication, cranes & lifts, 30+ OT workers on site and a lot of money can get the job done.


Friday 5:00 p.m. (edit - technical glitch loading with this picture)
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Saturday 8:00 a.m.
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Saturday 5:00 p.m.
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Sunday 9:30 a.m.
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Monday morning
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Just like the “Bridge Constructor App/Game“......
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...the load test passed.
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I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
 
I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
A GPS is even more fair. Anywhere you go it calculates it and sends you a bill. A gas tax is avoidable by people who can afford an EV.
 
I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.
One factor of congestion that gas tax cannot control is the time of travel. There are mainly two purposes for a toll road:
1. recover construction cost and maintenance
2. Encourage people to change their time and mode of travel.
 
I don't agree with the idea of tolls on roads like the Gardiner.

If it's a new piece of infrastructure then fine but if not then it seems patently unfair. Many people moved to the areas they are due to being convenient for work or their many trips to downtown but now they are being asked to pay a toll. Why should they have to pay a toll for an upgrade on existing infrastructure when the people along the 401, DVP etc don't have to? A general gas tax is far fairer.....…….the more you use the roads the more you pay.

Is it equally unfair if someone moved to a location close to subway, and the fare rises at more than double the rate of inflation over 20 years?

What if they moved next to a bus route or GO rail line on which service is tangibly reduced?

Both of these scenarios have happened here in Toronto and environs.

I find it a bit hard to swallow, that tolls are such a high burden, and btw, I'm a car owner and driver.

There are credible arguments in favour of gas tax vs tolls; though these only work for so long as gas is the dominant fuel form; and where the tax is large enough to be a material incentive.

Watching highways like the 400 in York Region grow ever wider, inducing a level of traffic that can't be supported by Toronto's road network, or by cottage country's either........

I'm inclined to think the case for discouraging growth in use by way of tolls is quite solid.

If that causes someone to reevaluate their decision to live in far-flung exurbia, I don't see that as grossly unfair; where the alternative creates even greater and more expensive problems for the rest of us.
 
You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls. The subway/transit increases apply to EVERYONE and not just a small few. A better example would be the TTC having to do major upgrades at, for instance, College Station and hence only charging the people that use that particular station more.

If the City wants tolls then fine but it should be fair by having every freeway in the City tolled by the same amount. They could also charge higher registration fees across the board, higher gas taxes, a city-wide parking tax, a sales tax on car/truck sales....……… a whole plethora of things are at their disposal which are just as easy to implement and far fairer and more equitable than tolling an already existing piece of infrastructure and don't penalize one particular geographic area over another.
 
You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls.

I'm not sure why you can't. The Rocket bus charges me extra. The GO bus going the same distance as two local busses charge extra. The cost is related to cost recovery and benefit. What is farebox recovery right now? Is it still around 80%? Almost no transit uses the Gardiner so shouldn't the people who use transit to get downtown get a property tax discount? I'm against road tolls in areas where there are little options (like the burbs and beyond) but downtown is well serviced. It would make more sense to me to trade the 407 for the Gardiner and DVP in terms of tolling and maintenance.
 
You can't use the example of a subway charging to excuse tolls. The subway/transit increases apply to EVERYONE and not just a small few. A better example would be the TTC having to do major upgrades at, for instance, College Station and hence only charging the people that use that particular station more.

I don't think that's at all accurate; because not everyone uses the subway, even among transit users, a great many will never use that mode. But more than that, the point you had made was the unfairness that someone chose to live somewhere based on the freeway existing, and being free. My point, was that if someone located because the Yonge Subway is there, and costs $1.10 per token, they would assume as per your logic , that the price would only ever shift with inflation. If the price doubles, in real terms (which it did during a few years back); then that's a material change from the price I'd assumed when I chose where to live. A choice that added $1.10 each way or $2.20 daily. How is that materially different that if the expressway goes from free to $3 per day?

If the City wants tolls then fine but it should be fair by having every freeway in the City tolled by the same amount. They could also charge higher registration fees across the board, higher gas taxes, a city-wide parking tax, a sales tax on car/truck sales....……… a whole plethora of things are at their disposal which are just as easy to implement and far fairer and more equitable than tolling an already existing piece of infrastructure and don't penalize one particular geographic area over another.

Right, but the City only owns 2 of the expressways/highways, the DVP and the Gardiner. They can't impose a toll on a 400-series highway they don't own.
 
They started Oct 12 with reduced lanes and now they are working their way back to the start. Assuming 7 more months to complete the North side then the flip to the south side and repeat.
Friday May 22.
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May 20
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Manual pour for the middle section over Jarvis St.
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Jarvis St final section of the north side. working their way back east
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Monday May 25
one last north section deck to be completed.
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Maybe this has been discussed before but I assume that they determined that the pillars holding up the deck are still in good shape and don't need replacement. Or is there any pillar replacement happening east of Jarvis? Other than the new ramping up portion closer to Cherry? I'm not that familiar with the design.
 
One little detail I notice is the maintenance of the curved one-piece light standards (which date back to the original low-pressure sodium lighting), rather than replacing with typical two-piece assemblies.

Still strange how Toronto still sticks with HPS cobraheads in new installations too (with the exception of the old city of Toronto's "arc" lamps, rather than modern LED.
 
They started Oct 12 with reduced lanes and now they are working their way back to the start. Assuming 7 more months to complete the North side then the flip to the south side and repeat.
Friday May 22.

Great pics. Thank you.
I believe that based on the schedule, the work on the North side should be completed within the next 3 months. The work on the South side should take less time and be completed by the end of 1st part of 2021. The Eastbound Jarvis on-ramp has been closed for construction as of last week allowing for concurrent work and faster completion of the South side.
 
One little detail I notice is the maintenance of the curved one-piece light standards (which date back to the original low-pressure sodium lighting), rather than replacing with typical two-piece assemblies.

Still strange how Toronto still sticks with HPS cobraheads in new installations too (with the exception of the old city of Toronto's "arc" lamps, rather than modern LED.

As discussed in few different threads here, Toronto Hydro is now the owner of the streetlights; and doesn't seem to enjoy the job.

They did run a pilot testing LED lighting awhile back on a few streets, but it never went anywhere.

I'd actually like to see a bigger re-think.

I'd light to see dark-skies friendly lights; which means reducing the height of poles, but also, likely, increasing their number. (closer together) to get the same coverage.
 

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