Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

[Rainforest]

"The Randstad (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈrɑntstɑt]) is a megalopolis in the central-western Netherlands consisting primarily of the four largest Dutch cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht) and their surrounding areas." Megalopolis population is 8,219,380. GTA population is 5.928 million.

Fair enough, but on that scale, the motorway Utrecht removed is just one short local road.

On the scale of the Randstad, they have so much public transit that we will need 50 years just to reach their today's level. And at the same time, they have more highways than GTA has (although none of their highways is as wide as the 401).

 

[Undead]

I believe the GTA is about 6.8 million now and the GTHA should be 7-7.5 million.

 

[afransen]

For scale, Randstad is 4300 sq km vs GTHA's 8300 sqkm (though GTHA includes some fairly empty sections of Durham, York and Halton). Durham region alone is over 2500 sq km and only 650k people. In other words, a lot of that area isn't really part of the urban agglomeration. Over time, I would not be surprised to see GTHA approach similar levels of density. But we'll do it with more super-high density residential and a lot more low density SFH than the fairly compact low-rise form in NL.

 

[The Preservationist]

I wonder in 30 years if some well heeled developer will propose levelling the Gardener and running it through the basement levels of a string of 100 storey supertalls....

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

While ideally something like that could pay for itself, traffic redirection would likely be Hell on a tarmac for the next 10 plus years while this goes down. So I'm gonna say likely no, not going to happen based on that alone.

 

[The Preservationist]

I could envision loosing Lake Shore for the duration of the project or the Gardiner and Lake Shore alternatively but not both at the same time. Towers could only be built once roadway completed. i'm quickly calculating you would need to create about 16-20 million square feet if the city gave the land for free in exchange for a new freeway and not feasible if developer had to buy the land at market prices in addition to developing the freeway. Anyways food for thought.

 

[The Preservationist]

Actually might need a few more million square feet at current selling prices. I think the upfront heavy investment without a return for 10- 20 years would make it unfeasible financially.

 

[ssiguy2]

If they go cheap or even just uninspired then they might as well just keep the current Gardiner and done some upgrades. If they decide to create a truly beautiful, artistic, inviting, and weather protected urban space with markets, cafes, art work, play areas, gardens all along it's length then even the most hardcore urbanites will be thanking the Almighty that they didn't tear the Gardiner down.

The true "success" of the Gardiner will not be judged on the cars moving on top of it but rather the people walking underneath it.

 

[Freddy]

Boston put its highway that went right through its downtown underground. Why couldn't Toronto?

 

[crumplescotch]

Boston put its highway that went right through its downtown underground. Why couldn't Toronto?

You mean the Big Dig? Isn't it like hugely notorious for being the most expensive yet the least effective public project of all times? I'd rather admire the views on Gardiner than breath toxic fumes in some cramped tunnel.

 

[Ciarlandini]

Boston put its highway that went right through its downtown underground. Why couldn't Toronto?

We're already struggling with creating new transit infrastructure and never mind the impact on the Post-Covid Budget

 

[ciceror]

Boston put its highway that went right through its downtown underground. Why couldn't Toronto?

I'd argue that our highway is actually very beautiful, there's nothing more scenic than driving through a highway surrounded by skyscrapers. we put the highway underground and all anyone can see is a concrete tunnel.

 

[Lovestallthings]

Seattle just did a similar project as well. Replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct which was a prominent feature on Seattle's waterfront for years. However they used a TBM vs what Boston did with "The Big Dig" with a "cut and cover" method. So far there are no issues with the Seattle Tunnel vs the massive, and in one case deadly issues that there are with "The Big Dig" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Route_99_tunnel

 

[afransen]

You mean the Big Dig? Isn't it like hugely notorious for being the most expensive yet the least effective public project of all times? I'd rather admire the views on Gardiner than breath toxic fumes in some cramped tunnel.

How much longer will vehicles be ICE? At some point most or all of those vehicles are going to be EVs and so no fumes. Although, as with subways, the pm 2.5 might be off the charts from tires and brakes.

 

[ushahid]

i dont understand why people hate Gardiner. driving on Gardiner the views are mindblowing. i would rather drive on Gardiner than driving underground. ive driven on BOston underground things, they are boring and gloomy.