News   Nov 22, 2024
National Housing Day: City of Toronto and Riverdale Co-op Open Affordable Homes
 574     1 
News   Nov 22, 2024
Bauhaus Condos Rising in Toronto's Old Town
 1K     5 
News   Nov 22, 2024
49-Storey Waterfront Tower Proposed at Spadina and Queens Quay
 2.7K     8 

Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

Some not great news on the Kensington pedestrianization plans, updated August 6/24.

1) Construction is pushed off to Fall '25

2) The interlocking brick which I thought was a huge improvement has been removed from the design in favour of asphalt.
Some pedestrianization is still proposed, but this has really been watered down from what should have been Market Street 2.0

www.toronto.ca

Kensington Market Safe Streets

Required road reconstruction and watermain replacement in Kensington Market presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to redesign the streets in a way that puts pedestrians first, while supporting local businesses. After extensive feedback from local stakeholders and the public, the City is...
www.toronto.ca www.toronto.ca
 
Northern Light said:
Some not great news on the Kensington pedestrianization plans, updated August 6/24.

1) Construction is pushed off to Fall '25

2) The interlocking brick which I thought was a huge improvement has been removed from the design in favour of asphalt.
Some pedestrianization is still proposed, but this has really been watered down from what should have been Market Street 2.0

www.toronto.ca

Kensington Market Safe Streets

Required road reconstruction and watermain replacement in Kensington Market presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to redesign the streets in a way that puts pedestrians first, while supporting local businesses. After extensive feedback from local stakeholders and the public, the City is...
www.toronto.ca www.toronto.ca
Click to expand...

I do find these two lines rather comical:

Asphalt paving in the roadways to provide a smooth surface for pedestrians using mobility devices, allow for a quicker construction, and maintain the existing Kensington Market look; the City is exploring options for a coating or mix of asphalt that would reflect more sunlight to reduce the urban heat island effect
  • Who would've expected the asphalt look to be representative of Kensington Market, at this point, why not just leave the weeds growing through the concrete to "maintain the look"...
The City will also pursue a pedestrianisation pilot project following construction. Staff will form and work closely with a local stakeholder committee to consult on, implement and evaluate a temporary pedestrianized zone in the Market. This will allow more time for consultation to determine the best balance for a pedestrianized zone in Kensington Market.
  • I do find it rather unfortunate that the pedestrianization pilot is taking place after we spend money to build a non-ideal solution that we'll be stuck with for a long time... instead of happening first to prove that pedestrianization can work well and then implementing the solution that is preferred by most Kensington Market visitors (hopefully with more buy in from the locals)
 
adys123 said:
I do find these two lines rather comical:

Asphalt paving in the roadways to provide a smooth surface for pedestrians using mobility devices, allow for a quicker construction, and maintain the existing Kensington Market look; the City is exploring options for a coating or mix of asphalt that would reflect more sunlight to reduce the urban heat island effect
  • Who would've expected the asphalt look to be representative of Kensington Market, at this point, why not just leave the weeds growing through the concrete to "maintain the look"...
The City will also pursue a pedestrianisation pilot project following construction. Staff will form and work closely with a local stakeholder committee to consult on, implement and evaluate a temporary pedestrianized zone in the Market. This will allow more time for consultation to determine the best balance for a pedestrianized zone in Kensington Market.
  • I do find it rather unfortunate that the pedestrianization pilot is taking place after we spend money to build a non-ideal solution that we'll be stuck with for a long time... instead of happening first to prove that pedestrianization can work well and then implementing the solution that is preferred by most Kensington Market visitors (hopefully with more buy in from the locals)
Click to expand...

I concur.

This is the unfortunate result of stubborn, ill-informed, businesses and residents throwing up objections and obstacles to this plan. This is exactly what @AlexBozikovic was talking about in his column that I linked to just the other day.

I'm loathe to risk delaying the modest, but real gains this proposal will deliver; but I think people taking the time to voice their objection to this watering down of a good idea, to both the area councillor and area businesses/the BIA is a worthwhile idea.

We should do this right, the first time. I'm fine with a pilot if it makes people happy, but we should do the pilot next year, before any construction and deliver proof-of-concept and then go ahead. But when we do, we should go for best possible, most complete version.

That said, I don't think a pilot is necessary, I think we've seen plenty of examples of this working out well, especially in other cities, but again, on Market Street here as well.
 
Last edited:
Northern Light said:
I concur.

This is the unfortunate result of stubborn, ill-informed, businesses and residents throwing up objections and obstacles to this plan. This is exactly what @AlexBozikovic was talking about in this column that I linked to just the other day.

I'm loathe to risk delaying the modest, but real gains this proposal will deliver; but I think people taking the time to voice their objection to this watering down of a good idea, to both the area councillor and area businesses/the BIA is a worthwhile idea.

We should do this right, the first time. I'm fine with a pilot if it makes people happy, but we should do the pilot next year, before any construction and deliver proof-of-concept and then go ahead. But when we do, we should go for best possible, most complete version.

That said, I don't think a pilot is necessary, I think we've seen plenty of examples of this working out well, especially in other cities, but again, on Market Street here as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not generally a good is the enemy of perfect kind of guy, but, I think delaying this until after the pilot should be the goal, because, if we can't get Kensington pedestrianized, where can it happen? This will also be a model for opposition on how to kill these proposals. Not doing anything will just increase the pressure, and that's a positive, imo. Even if we need to wait 5 years, it's better than 20 to 30 years when we'll get another chance.
 
This could go here or in cycling.......as it relates to the various improvements underway on Avenue Road.

1728049565069.png


 
For the Kensington business operators opposing pedestrianization... this St. John's business says they're being forced to close because a nearby area was pedestrianized and because everybody flocked to the pedestrian zone (obviously it's a more pleasant place to eat dinner and shop), there was no longer anybody else who wanted to eat on their stinky car street.


The pedestrian mall also created a sort of boundary for people, encouraging them to stay within its limits and not visit businesses outside of it, he says.

He added that they had conversations with other downtown businesses outside the pedestrian mall, and their sales had dropped by 30 percent — a figure similar to their own decline.

"The city that decided to change the competitive landscape by subsidizing the chosen few that are within the geographic boundaries of the pedestrian mall."
Click to expand...

Want to supercharge your restaurant business? Get it into a pedestrian zone.
 
evandyk said:
For the Kensington business operators opposing pedestrianization... this St. John's business says they're being forced to close because a nearby area was pedestrianized and because everybody flocked to the pedestrian zone (obviously it's a more pleasant place to eat dinner and shop), there was no longer anybody else who wanted to eat on their stinky car street.




Want to supercharge your restaurant business? Get it into a pedestrian zone.
Click to expand...
I was listening to an episode of The War On Cars recently with guest Rick Steves (travel guide writer) and these bits stuck with me:
Rick Steves: In Europe, especially in the earlier days, every time they instituted a new radical pedestrian boulevard swept free of fossil-fuel traffic, it was controversial. And people were afraid at first, but the government pushed it. And the government knew when the people got used to it, they’d like it. And then the reality is, after a little while, when they got settled in, the merchants on that pedestrian street who were a little nervous were so thankful. And the merchants on the parallel street that still had car traffic were lobbying to get their own street made pedestrian like the main boulevard.
Click to expand...

Doug: It’s funny that you mentioned the Strøget. I knew that was the street that you were talking about in Copenhagen because there is a kind of famous story, at least in our circles, that when they did originally propose shutting that down, the merchants said, “Why are you doing this? This isn’t Italy.” And you still hear that today in New York and elsewhere. “This isn’t Amsterdam. This isn’t Copenhagen.” Well, Amsterdam and Copenhagen weren’t Amsterdam and Copenhagen not that long ago.
Click to expand...
 
Can't we do the tried and true Toronto approach of a time-boxed pilot? Pedestrianize Kensington for a summer or a year or two and assess.
 
afransen said:
Can't we do the tried and true Toronto approach of a time-boxed pilot? Pedestrianize Kensington for a summer or a year or two and assess.
Click to expand...
That is what staff recommended and what was voted for:

Agenda Item History 2023.TE6.54

Agenda Item History 2023.TE6.54
secure.toronto.ca
Directed staff to form and work closely with a local stakeholder committee to consult on and propose to implement a time-restricted pilot project to test and evaluate a pedestrianised zone following construction of the capital works.
Click to expand...
 
We must summon @DSC at once and afford him what resources he can lawfully use to cajole 'stakeholders' in his area and at City Hall to adult.

Sigh..

The City and area stakeholders can't seem to agree on permanently pedestrianizing Market Street. So the City is recommending a further temporary extension until January '25, so it will stay pedestrian through the Christmas season.

Apparently there are a lack of formal processes for permanent pedestrianization of streets (I smell a new set of jobs and reports) ...... because existing staff can't figure out 1 whole city block that is near perfect for this type of treatment.

How is that deliveries and waste pick up can be successfully managed for 8 months of the year, but will suddenly become impossible from January to April?

 
Northern Light said:
How is that deliveries and waste pick up can be successfully managed for 8 months of the year, but will suddenly become impossible from January to April?
Click to expand...

"We can manage waste and deliveries no problem at all through the peak tourist periods, but there's no way we can figure it out for those few months when almost nobody goes to the market!"
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top