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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

You want to hold drivers accountable and tell them to smarten up? Fine. Just stop being a hypocrite and hold pedestrians to that same standard instead of treating them like little kids that don't have to take any responsibility for their own actions and behaviors.

Exactly this. An intersection or crosswalk is a shared space. Everyone who uses it should be held to the same standard of attention and care.

It is interesting that we are having a debate about gun control at the same time we are having a debate about roadway safety. Both involve the control and use of lethal force by average citizens, but the solutions we consider are diametrically opposite between the two debates. Somewhere in the middle is some sound common sense and wisdom.

- Paul
 
^And as I'm typing the above, while riding on the 501 streetcar, a half dozen people come round the corner, spot this streetcar stopped across the street, and run (against the light) across Lakeshore Blvd to try and catch it. Not one looked in either direction for approaching cars, they just bolted. Streetcar driver did the only thing he could, blew his horn to warn approaching cars. Opened the doors, but there were already cars coming alongside the streetcar, as he had just closed the doors.
We expect drivers to "expect the unexpected", but I would have trouble faulting a motorist if someone had been hit under these circumstances. Random and unpredictable things happen.
There has to be an onus on everybody near a live roadway to pay attention to what's going on.

- Paul
 
Exactly this. An intersection or crosswalk is a shared space. Everyone who uses it should be held to the same standard of attention and care.

It is interesting that we are having a debate about gun control at the same time we are having a debate about roadway safety. Both involve the control and use of lethal force by average citizens, but the solutions we consider are diametrically opposite between the two debates. Somewhere in the middle is some sound common sense and wisdom.

- Paul

Err I beg to differ - everyone should be held to *some* standard, but it makes no sense to hold someone operating a vehicle and has greater potential to kill to the same standard as someone who is a pedestrian. There are road tests for drivers and not for pedestrians for a reason - because it requires more knowledge and skills, and also because of the greater potential for injuries associated with operating one. The standards should be proportionate to the impact.

AoD
 
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Now why can't you hold pedestrians accountable for their actions in the same manner? Tell them to stop looking at their phones while they're crossing, tell them to stop talking on the phone while crossing, tell them to never stop looking at their surroundings while they're crossing in case the situation changes and they could get hit. Why aren't you getting tough on pedestrians and telling them to stop being so stupid and learn these basic things that could save their lives?

The question is - why would you as a driver hit someone who is looking at their phone crossing the road at the right location at the right time? The criminality isn't them looking at the phone - it is you hitting them. You cannot count on someone to miss your vehicle if you are operating it with the expectation that the other party will yield to you when they don't have to. If you are counting on that, there is something wrong with how you drive. Now if you are talking about someone who is jaywalking and looking at their phone at the same time, that's a different story.

Also, what is with this fixation on phones? Is that the reason why people are getting hit here in Toronto - or is it because of speeding, red-light running (and acceleration on yellow), rushing right turns, poor driving skills, etc.? Not to mention, nothing pedestrians do ever affect drivers not stopping at the scene of an accident, and yet that's becoming more prevalent. How's that?

AoD
 
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Many people become more passionate about road safety after living through their own Toronto experience. Here's mine:

I live in North York. About three years ago, I was walking north on Yonge Street, not far from Mel Lastman Square. Middle of the afternoon-clear day. On the other side of the street--an older couple , mid 60s, walking in the same direction. It's a busy street. I look away and suddenly hear a loud thump as a car rolls up on the other sidewalk and plows into the back of the couple, knocking the man out of his shoes and dragging him into a parking lot. Lots of screams. Many people, including myself, rush over the help, but the man has been smashed against the pavement and then run over by the car. Blood everywhere. The woman he was with was holding his hand when he was hit and the force of the accident broke two of her fingers.

Is this the accident?

Hard to believe that after something like this and the van attack in 2018 there's still no protective barriers there
 
Err I beg to differ - everyone should be held to *some* standard, but it makes no sense to hold someone operating a vehicle and has greater potential to kill to the same standard as someone who is a pedestrian. There are road tests for drivers and not for pedestrians for a reason - because it requires more knowledge and skills, and also because of the greater potential for injuries associated with operating one. The standards should be proportionate to the impact.

AoD

That’s like saying that it’s ok to smoke at a gas station, because hey it’s the guy with the can of gas who is creating the danger, not the smoker.
Yes, the driver brings the lethality, but each party brings some of the causal factors that may lead to a collision.

Incidents happen because of the interplay of various factors, some attributable to the auto and some attributable other things.
Everyone should be accountable for their actions and the attribution of cause should consider everyone in a balanced way.

I try to drive as safely as I can, but the roads are built and signalled in a way that things like reaction times, lines of sight, stopping distances, and ability to discern others' intentions will challenge even a careful driver. Pedestrians should be able to count on drivers to use care but drivers ought to be able to count on pedestrians to stay within certain limits.

There is a different between figuring out causes and assigning blame. Some people here are determined to demonize the auto any way they can. I'm in favour of finding a more fair balance of use between cars, bicycles, and pedestrians. That may impact drivers the most, because cars have monopolised our roads to date. But it does not grant license to others to pass all the blame on to the automobile instead of looking with more objectivity as to who has contributed to what.

I suspect we aren’t going to agree on much of this so I won't go further.

- Paul
 
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Sorry, couldn't resist...

Op-Ed: Yes, Gov. Cuomo, Car Helmets Could Save Lives
There's plenty of data on brain injuries from crashes, and studies showing how helmets could prevent them.

From link.

motoring-helmet.png


Streetsblog recently asked Gov. Andrew Cuomo “if he might consider helmet mandates for car drivers, given that vast numbers of car drivers who in fatal crashes die as a result of head trauma, as opposed to bicyclists, who are often killed in ways that would render a helmet useless.”

“I’m thinking,” the governor said after a long pause. “I don’t know enough. I’d like to see the data.”

Here you go, governor: the data exist, and they are truly scary. The American Association of Neurological Surgeons says about 1.7 million cases of Traumatic Brain Injury occur every year in the United States, and that “between 50-70 percent … are the result of a motor-vehicle crash.” They also note:
  • Annual direct and indirect TBI costs are estimated at $48 to $56 billion.
  • There are about 235,000 hospitalizations for TBI every year, which is more than 20 times the number of hospitalizations for spinal-cord injury.
  • Every year, 80,000 to 90,000 people experience the onset of long-term or lifelong disabilities associated with TBI.
One would think, given those startling numbers, that helmets would be as ubiquitous in cars as seat belts, especially given research showing how effective they could be in injury prevention. Such studies exist, and they are impressive.

Mikael Colville-Andersen of the blog Copenhagenize points to an Australian study [PDF] in which researchers studied a protective headband that protects the most vulnerable part of the head. Per the study, “a headband for car occupants could significantly reduce the severity of certain head impacts in a crash.”

Australia is also the home of the Davies Craig Motoring Helmet, of which cycling writer and historian Carlton Reid is a proud owner. “Motoring is a dangerous activity,” Reid quotes the developer, Richard Davies, in Forbes. “If a motorist is not killed in a crash, one of the most common injuries is a head injury and they can produce permanent and long-term damage.”

Reid wonders why we are “culturally programmed to mollycoddle motoring.”

“Statistically, and logically, it would make sense to take every safety precaution necessary when driving, including wearing helmets — but no brain injury organizations lobby for their use, never mind their mandatory use,” Reid writes. “Unlike for cycling, there are no campaigns urging the adoption of motoring helmets because ‘if it saved just one life it would be worth it.’”

It would save a lot more than one life, and dramatically reduce the number and severity of traumatic brain injuries. Another Australian study concluded that mandatory use of helmets, like those sold by Davies Craig, would make a lot more sense than the mandatory bicycle-helmet laws they have in Australia:

“Despite the risk of dying from head injury per hour being similar for unhelmeted cyclists and motor-vehicle occupants, cyclists alone have been required to wear head protection,” the study’s authors observe, adding, “a mandatory helmet law for these road users has the potential to save 17 times as many people from death by head injury as a helmet law for cyclists without the adverse effects of discouraging a healthy and pollution free mode of transport.”

Mandating car helmets would be a struggle. The automotive industry fought the introduction of seat-belt laws for years, worried that they would make driving less enjoyable and reduce car sales. In fact, when Ford put seat belts in their ’56 cars and tried to market their cars as being safer, sales plummeted. Imagine how car companies would fight against mandatory helmets for drivers, which would probably depress driving rates, just like mandatory bike helmets did to cycling rates in Australia.

That’s why it is so exciting that Gov. Cuomo is willing to consider helmet mandates for car drivers. Imagine, taking action that would prevent thousands of injuries, save millions of dollars in health-care costs, reduce insurance rates, free up hospital beds and reduce congestion, all while being seen to take on a big, entrenched auto industry.

If you want data, we’ve got data.
 
Agressive males in fancy cars are suffering from small penis syndrome.

A new study out of Finland has found that argumentative and egotistical men are particularly likely to drive cars like Mercedes, Audis or BMWs, and those same personality traits can also explain why these people can be such aggressive and unethical drivers.
 
Aggressive males in fancy cars are suffering from small penis syndrome.

A new study out of Finland has found that argumentative and egotistical men are particularly likely to drive cars like Mercedes, Audis or BMWs, and those same personality traits can also explain why these people can be such aggressive and unethical drivers.

This pretty much confirms exactly what I suspected to be the case, based on my extensive experience on the roads as a cyclist and pedestrian. There was a time when I used to admire BMW vehicles for their quality and design, but I have absolutely no desire to be part of that club.


1580596683798.png
 
While I do see a grain of that around the GTA, I certainly wouldn't restrict it to males. Show me a commissioned salesperson, particularly real estate, driving a high end SUV, in the throes of a deal, and I'll show you a disengaged and aggressive driver. I have refused to ride with an agent for years.
There are just as many aggressive male drivers in Honda Civics and Mazda 3s.
 
While I do see a grain of that around the GTA, I certainly wouldn't restrict it to males. Show me a commissioned salesperson, particularly real estate, driving a high end SUV, in the throes of a deal, and I'll show you a disengaged and aggressive driver. I have refused to ride with an agent for years.
There are just as many aggressive male drivers in Honda Civics and Mazda 3s.

All that's missing are trumpets blaring, palm leaves, flower petals, vestal virgins, statues, and guards, all to show off their "triumph" of success.

rt6370.jpg

From link.
 
Sorry, couldn't resist...

Op-Ed: Yes, Gov. Cuomo, Car Helmets Could Save Lives
There's plenty of data on brain injuries from crashes, and studies showing how helmets could prevent them.

From link.

motoring-helmet.png

The suggestion that car occupants wear helmets seems ridiculous at first. But more people get brain injuries in cars than on bikes.

On a related but different note, I think it would surprise most people that the typical bike helmet offers almost no protection against concussions at all. Helmets are meant to protect against skull fractures, which is an important kind of injury to prevent because it may be associated with brain injury or death.

But concussions are believed to happen when the axons in the tissue of the brain get stretched when the brain shifts and rotates in an accident. You don't need a skull fracture to get one. It's only now that we're starting to see new kinds of helmets meant to prevent the rotation or shifting of the brain that is believed to lead to concussions. Without that kind of helmet, you're only getting protection against some kinds of brain injury but not others like concussions (and not complete protection at that).
 
While I do see a grain of that around the GTA, I certainly wouldn't restrict it to males. Show me a commissioned salesperson, particularly real estate, driving a high end SUV, in the throes of a deal, and I'll show you a disengaged and aggressive driver. I have refused to ride with an agent for years.
There are just as many aggressive male drivers in Honda Civics and Mazda 3s.

Yeah, legit. The quality German automobiles being the toy of the deranged trope is severe bullshit.

Trust me....I'm on these roads for tens of hours a month. The bell-ends come in all shapes and sizes and drive all sorts of cars. I'm not just saying this because I drive a Merc either. :p

Besides, if you really want to get into stereotypical tropes, there are way better ones to use to "determine" the likelihood that someone is a shitty/wack driver.

Over and out.
 

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