salsa
Senior Member
Finally some positive news after an abysmal few weeks for road safety.
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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan
- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
That's assuming they actually catch the driver
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
If it wasn't for this city being so cheap, I'd believe council approving this rather than implementing an actual Vision Zero plan.
11th
Senior Member
Something I do not understand, has the speed on suburban arterials increased over say the past twenty years? Seems like pedestrian fatalities have spiked up in recent years. Assuming speed has always been "high", what caused the change? Sub-standard drivers? Aging population? Technology?
A reflective body cam
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Probably a combination of a few factors. SUVs are now much more popular and are clearly more deadly than sedans due to their increased mass. Our population is aging, and I expect that that's even more true of the suburbs than downtown. And finally, the police literally stopped enforcing traffic laws 6 years ago which has created a culture where drivers know they can break the law and nothing will happen to them as a consequence.
crs1026
Superstar
All good hypotheses but are any of them backed by data?
One of the things that is making this whole debate unpleasant is how little of it is fact based. Are SUV’s and pickup trucks actually involved in a disproportionate number of pedestrian strikes? Are older drivers actually involved more often? Does being hit by a Fiat at 60km/h lead to death less often than being hit by a F150? I can’t mount an argument either way, because I haven’t seen data. Both those accusations (age, pickup truck drivers) are nothing but intemperate stereotypes if the data doesn’t support..
The recent reflector outcry was actually constructive because somebody went and looked at statistics and pointed out the actual percentage of low light incidents didn’t match the solution offered (I still think reflectors can’t hurt, but that isn’t my point - my point is the critics won the argument using data)
My own theory is simply that as the roads fill up with cars, and as the number of stoplights per mile increase, people just get more impatient and make more risky manoeuvres more often than in the past. Examples:
- car ahead stops eg to make a turn, cars behind abruptly change lanes, instead of just waiting til the driver ahead has moved onn. The whole line of cars changes order because the car furthest back weaves first, drivers may be overtaking where there is a hazard
- racing for yellow lights is clearly happening more, possibly because there are many more stoplights
- turning aggressively while a pedestrian is still crossing - especially left turns - because there are few gaps in oncoming cars and the urge to ‘“give’er” overwhelms the requirement to yield... now or never dynamics
In all of these, the common element is “in a hurry”.... but the haste may not be increasing, rather, it’s the perception that the drive is taking longer than it used to or ought to.... which may be true. People need to recalibrate from earlier decades - but their need for speed is just habit, it’s not some newfound depravity or loss of human caring.
With roads being so congested, the utility that autos once offered may be disappearing, and that can’t be undone.....but peoples’ mindsets haven’t caught up. The “influencers” may be ahead of the rest of us on that, but their attacks on motorists, SUV drivers, older drivers, etc are pretty close to hate mongering. You can’t educate or enlighten people by shaming them.
When accidents occur, the police investigate to determine culpability but not necessarily cause. This can take days or weeks as the case must be managed with an eye to prosecution. They stay mum on important facts that may be argued in court. There is rarely a good technical explanation to the public of what happened. Meanwhile, the court of social media has “investigated” the accident and assigned blame within minutes. I really think we need to start calling out the self-appointed Twitter Police for this. And the police need to stop reporting a skewed story line....this is a case where giving the age and gender of victims is polarising the debate. The police release the age of the victim, and the make of vehicle, and the Twitter rabble immediately seize on their agendas.
We should be analysing and debating basedon a couple years’ worth of properly-collected data, not on what happened last night.
- Paul
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Yes and no - anecdotal observation suggests that driving style has deteriorated even where there are no pedestrians - i.e. highways under free flow conditions. And it can be a newfound depravity or loss of human caring - driving style is one thing; not stopping at the scene of an accident or coming to aid to someone who had been struck down is something completely different that simply can't be waved away by "rush". It isn't rush.
AoD
44 North
Senior Member
Something that doesn't seem to get brought up is the growth of the A Pillar (between the windshield and side window) and the proportional decrease in driver's vision of the road in front of them. To support the humongous added weight of newer cars/SUVs and fit in side airbags we've created a Hindenburg of a blind spot. Roof lines along the top of the windshield have gotten progressively lower as well which obviously reduces forward vision, but I think the A Pillar is still a major overlooked issue when it comes to pedestrian safety.
A common refrain directed at the driving public is 'check your blind spot, check your blind spot', specifically referring to what's beside and to the back of the vehicle. But where's the directives about checking the forward blind spot? Making a left/right turn, approaching a crosswalk, crossing an intersection... all are heavily obscured. With newer cars you really have to move your head forward/backward and side to side at all times, I mean a lot more than in older vehicles. Let's get some attention on that.
A common refrain directed at the driving public is 'check your blind spot, check your blind spot', specifically referring to what's beside and to the back of the vehicle. But where's the directives about checking the forward blind spot? Making a left/right turn, approaching a crosswalk, crossing an intersection... all are heavily obscured. With newer cars you really have to move your head forward/backward and side to side at all times, I mean a lot more than in older vehicles. Let's get some attention on that.
I also think it's the lack of enforcement coupled with the lack of consequence.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
re: SUV and pedestrians death - there are some studies:
usa.streetsblog.org
journals.sagepub.com
AoD
Study Links Rise of SUVs to the Pedestrian Safety Crisis
The findings also undermine the idea that “distracted pedestrians” are the problem.
usa.streetsblog.org
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.
AoD
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Forgive me for this post if you feel offended by it but to what extent is this road collision hype these days a real phenomenon or hype like homicide news? My sense is like homicide violence Toronto streets probably used to be more dangerous, then they became way safer, now there may be an uptick. It’s these uptick factors that concern me such as distracted driving / walking or as someone else mentioned an older population. But if the shift to an older population demographic is permanent that alone would be justification for rethinking traffic signaling and design. November is I believe statistically the most dangerous month for pedestrians so it’s not surprising we are hearing a lot of news just like gun homicides are concentrated in the summer. What for instance is the pedestrian fatality rate per 100,000 in the city over time?
On a personal note an elderly gentleman who does a bit of lawn care for me got hit by a distracted female driver a few weeks ago. He wears a yellow safety vest so that clearly didn’t make a difference. The woman was distracted by kids in the car and to be honest be very careful of parents driving young children because it’s just as dangerous as cellphone talking. The gentleman hit also wears special glasses and has sight issues.
On a personal note an elderly gentleman who does a bit of lawn care for me got hit by a distracted female driver a few weeks ago. He wears a yellow safety vest so that clearly didn’t make a difference. The woman was distracted by kids in the car and to be honest be very careful of parents driving young children because it’s just as dangerous as cellphone talking. The gentleman hit also wears special glasses and has sight issues.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is a good point!
Let me add, in respect of rear/side blind spots, why the hell are we still allowing cars with mirrors, we should be on rear-view and side view cameras with no blind spots. These could also aid in accident investigation.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Actually we should have mandatory on-board drive recorders w/ external cameras - only accessible in the event of an accident (privacy reasons).
AoD