Return to office discussion

[afransen]

As much as my retail job is completely worthless and I do nothing that benefits society in any form, in the long wasted months of covid the chance to go out and talk to other human beings (my coworkers - fuck customers) was the only thing that kept me remotely sane. If I had to stay cooped up all the time during those long, bleak months of lockdown, I would've lost my goddamn mind.

I talk on the phone 4-5 hours per day. Even days I go to the office, often most of my interaction with coworkers is via conference calls, with people who work in other parts of the country.

 

[afransen]

As a manager I had people who asked to be in the office because they'd have a ton of trouble focusing on task.

That should be an option for people who need it. My workplace allowed people to come to the office for the vast majority of the pandemic. It is extremely telling that attendance was perhaps 2% when it was completely discretionary.

 

[Undead]

That's definitely an over-generalization. There are many industries (computer engineering) which is more than just calls and emails.

A close family member is a software programmer. Everything he does can be done from home. Maybe you're referring to working with hardware? What I have in mind are the usual paper pusher office jobs, which are, let's face it, the majority.

I am a single 20 something suburbanite, and myself and everyone I've talked to at work in my age group all agree that we would despise WFH

I'm 28 and most of my friends are around the same age, just getting into the office world. Most people have the same perspective as me. As do many of the older folks.

I hope that when that day comes we'll have abandoned the WFH nonsense altogether

We will do everything in our power to ensure the opposite lol. Wait till you get into a mindless office job.

I do not want my work and my home life to be mixed up together in the slightest. The thought of having to waste away in my house, not even having an excuse to go into the city during the week and seeing something of real life, makes me physically ill.

This is such an unfathomable claim to me. Even if true, is the separation of work and personal worth waking up too early and commuting in terrible traffic? I have no problem separating work and personal when I work from home. In fact, I always keep a firewall between the two. It has nothing to do with working from home (said with all due respect). I'd argue the commute actually does more to mix the two because it intrudes unnecessarily on our personal time.

not even having an excuse to go into the city during the week and seeing something of real life

I mean, the long commute already precludes that? Again, I just don't get these claims. If you're wfh, you can take off for events right at 5 instead of 6-6:30 by the time you're home, eaten and cleaned up; plus you're feeling fresher because there's no commute. To me, this and the above point speak more to people's inability to arrange their lives properly. Like the claim that one is utterly unable to focus at their home desk because their bed is five feet away. Give me a goddamn break lol, what kind of argument is that?

I don't recall ever saying anything about open concept offices. I've never worked in one, and looking at them, I don't want to ever.

The original claim being that it's easier to get distracted at home, whereas the predominant office form ensures just as much, if not more, distraction in office.

As a manager I had people who asked to be in the office because they'd have a ton of trouble focusing on task.

Fair enough for those people; but they do not get to dictate for the rest of us.

 

[afransen]

Not every office is a hot/hotel desk environment.

Hotelling is becoming much more common. My company was already on that path before the pandemic, and they used the pandemic to fully renovate pretty well all of our offices. I imagine if hybrid work remains the norm, more companies will be tempted to adopt hotelling.

If it ever becomes the case that more or less full-time office attendance is mandated, I will become pretty vocal in questioning the hotelling model.

 

[T3G]

Wait till you get into a mindless office job.

Well, there's the problem, right there. A mindless job is a mindless job. Would your enthusiasm for the gig be substantially increased if you got to work from home for it? Would you not want to do something you find stimulating and interesting?

I already do a mindless job, it's called being a cashier. I contribute nothing to the world and if I died, my replacement would be adequately trained inside of a week. I'm not trying to do something like that with a commute. My only experience in an office so far was a two month internship I did at a news station some years ago. While I wasn't there long enough to have bad days or for any sort of disillusionment to settle in, the very last thing in the world it could be called was boring.

This is such an unfathomable claim to me. Even if true, is the separation of work and personal worth waking up too early and commuting in terrible traffic? I have no problem separating work and personal when I work from home. In fact, I always keep a firewall between the two. It has nothing to do with working from home (said with all due respect). I'd argue the commute actually does more to mix the two because it intrudes unnecessarily on our personal time.

I commuted by the GO train, and I didn't mind. I'm a transportation hobbyist by nature so I found it interesting; and I used the time to catch up on new music or podcasts.

I mean, the long commute already precludes that? Again, I just don't get these claims. If you're wfh, you can take off for events right at 5 instead of 6-6:30 by the time you're home, eaten and cleaned up; plus you're feeling fresher because there's no commute.

If it's an event like a concert then you may have a point, yes.

That is not what I was referring to. If me and all my coworkers work the same shift, and we wanted to go out for drinks or something, we don't have to coordinate our schedules through the inhuman lens of shift work, we can all go out right after work. And then there were all the days I wouldn't bother going home right away, but I'd go out with my camera and walk around downtown doing photos. These were spontaneous decisions and couldn't be done if we were all working from home.

Like the claim that one is utterly unable to focus at their home desk because their bed is five feet away. Give me a goddamn break lol, what kind of argument is that?

I mean, have you stopped to consider that maybe other people might view the world differently? If you're able to work from your home desk, bully for you. My personal experience with doing online classes is the exact opposite. I genuinely can't recall a single detail of any online class I've ever done. The fact that I managed to pass is a minor miracle.

 

[picard102]

Would your enthusiasm for the gig be substantially increased if you got to work from home for it?

Absolutely. I'm a graphic designer, I have a job in graphic design, so it's something I'm obviously interested in. Doesn't mean my job is any less mindless 90% of the time. Most jobs are, and the idea they are not is the greatest marketing success of capitalism.
Working from home would be a selling point for sure.

I commuted by the GO train, and I didn't mind. I'm a transportation hobbyist by nature so I found it interesting; and I used the time to catch up on new music or podcasts.

I can catch up on music and podcasts at my desk. Losing 2 hours a day isn't necessary.

That is not what I was referring to. If me and all my coworkers work the same shift, and we wanted to go out for drinks or something, we don't have to coordinate our schedules through the inhuman lens of shift work, we can all go out right after work.

In your 20's this is a thing in offices for sure, I've gotten wasted with coworkers and had to crash on their couch a few times in my 20's.
After your 20's it is much less prevalent and often ends up being having people over instead of going out, and co-ordinating weekend schedules, im my observations.

And then there were all the days I wouldn't bother going home right away, but I'd go out with my camera and walk around downtown doing photos. These were spontaneous decisions and couldn't be done if we were all working from home.

This assumes your office job is downtown. A lot are not. I've had both, and being downtown is convenient, but there is no guarantee you will be downtown if you work in an office.

 

[tripwire]

WFH or WFO really does depend greatly on the individual. The state of their career, their personality, their vocation, etc.

I'm a grumpy old dude in software development, and so I absolutely love WFH. I don't need to network, I don't need to socialize with co-workers (in person), etc. At the same time, I'm not distracted all the time as I used to be in the office. It doesn't help that a lot of offices went into the mindset of open concept; I mean, cubicle-land was not great, but open concept was far worse. So many project or account managers that are on the phone all day, all the small talk that happens at the desks, etc.

When I started my career 25 years ago, almost everyone got an office (small, but still an office) and that was pretty damn awesome. If I needed to concentrate, I'd close my door, but otherwise I'd leave it open for people to drop by. And I can also drop by my co-workers to visit and chit chat to take a break. Cubicle or open concept really wrecked it. Is there more collaboration? Again, it might depend on the profession, but to me, WFH has been a blessing.

My company has signaled a 50/50 return to office, but my immediate managers have mentioned that it won't apply to us in the digital department. But I'm pushing to get my team members to go into the office together once a month - mostly for lunch! Which is another thing, Covid killed a lot of the restaurants we liked near our office.

 

[Bayer]

Sometimes it takes an exceptional event to break useless habits. We had an office for 24 years but for most of that time, technology made it unnecessary. I'm a language translator; in the early 1990s, we had to deliver our work by courier on paper and diskette, and we would be paid by cheque and had to go to the bank all the time. Now we do everything by email or through websites, and all our clients pay by credit card or direct deposit; we haven't been to our bank branch in years. I once stayed in France for 5 weeks on a working holiday and none of my clients realized I was away.

So after 2 years at home we just didn't renew our lease, like countless other businesses. I have a nice space set up with my desktop, but sometimes I just work on my laptop, lounging on the couch. The building we were at has a 38% vacancy rate right now.

 

[gabe]

I am extremely curious to see the demographics of all these Canadians that love WFH so much. I am a single 20 something suburbanite, and myself and everyone I've talked to at work in my age group all agree that we would despise WFH. As much as my retail job is completely worthless and I do nothing that benefits society in any form, in the long wasted months of covid the chance to go out and talk to other human beings (my coworkers - fuck customers) was the only thing that kept me remotely sane. If I had to stay cooped up all the time during those long, bleak months of lockdown, I would've lost my goddamn mind.

It's all right for some (specifically, those who already have family), but one day when I move on and get a real job, it had better have loads of in person interaction. In fact, I hope that when that day comes we'll have abandoned the WFH nonsense altogether, I do not want my work and my home life to be mixed up together in the slightest. The thought of having to waste away in my house, not even having an excuse to go into the city during the week and seeing something of real life, makes me physically ill. I've made some great friends at my current job. Then almost all of them moved on.

I'm an almost 40 suburbanite, i despise WFH. I did WFH during the first few lockdowns. When I worked from home, I didn’t have any type of routine and it made me so depressed. I just rolled out of bed and started working. I need to be able to separate work from home life, oh and I gained 20 pounds. Now that i have a job where i can't WFH, i'm back to taking transit, i've caught up on podcasts, music, audiobooks, i have lost weight and my mental health has improved a lot.

I live out in suburban hell, i really missed the downtown. The other week i had time to kill, so i went to the AGO. If i was stuck at home. i would probably just be sitting there watching something on Amazon Prime or Youtube for 90 minutes.

 

[picard102]

When the lockdowns first started it was rough, I missed going to work and the gym. But once I got over it, the idea of commuting 2 hours a day to be able to do less with my time for 8 hours is increasingly appealing.

We still go downtown whenever we want, and are free from the occasional having to go home first and then come back down for events.

I also put on all the weight I lost in the year prior to the pandemic.

 

[Bayer]

Reading about real commuting is an eye opener; I've worked and lived downtown for 35 years. I had been taking the subway from Bloor to King in the past few years and it was an annoyance; before then, I was always within walking distance. I could never imagine wasting 2 hours of my time every day.

 

[afransen]

Reading about real commuting is an eye opener; I've worked and lived downtown for 35 years. I had been taking the subway from Bloor to King in the past few years and it was an annoyance; before then, I was always within walking distance. I could never imagine wasting 2 hours of my time every day.

My commute is 15 minutes each way and I still resent it!

 

[picard102]

Reading about real commuting is an eye opener; I've worked and lived downtown for 35 years. I had been taking the subway from Bloor to King in the past few years and it was an annoyance; before then, I was always within walking distance. I could never imagine wasting 2 hours of my time every day.

I have a co-worker who commuted to our Brampton office from downtown by transit. It was 3 hours each way.

Funnily enough I'm going in today, boss thinks he left something at his desk in our downtown office 2 years ago and asked if I wanted to meet up for lunch. Plus side is I'm going to commute during work hours, though I'll be driving so it should be quicker than normal.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

I have a co-worker who commuted to our Brampton office from downtown by transit. It was 3 hours each way.

Funnily enough I'm going in today, boss thinks he left something at his desk in our downtown office 2 years ago and asked if I wanted to meet up for lunch. Plus side is I'm going to commute during work hours, though I'll be driving so it should be quicker than normal.

LOL at your boss! I know a guy that commutes from Niagara to Etobicoke every day. That's pure madness.

 

[picard102]

He told us at lunch that the current rumor is that they will require us in office 2 days a week, one of which has to be at our Brampton office so the CEO can do a weekly Town Hall.

I guess my first question at this town hall should be why do we need to be in the office at all when the only time we meet our yearly goals and got bonuses was while we worked from home.