Dan416
Senior Member
It's a worthy initiative to be sure. Hopefully it'll come to pass.
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Rail: Ontario-Quebec High Speed Rail Study
- Thread starter isittimetomoveyet
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Hopefully ... but the only time there was any long-term progress was when Trudeau was Prime Minister.
If there's one thing America does really well (or did really well) it's grandiose infrastructure projects done quickly. The electrification of the Tennessee and Ohio Valleys during the Great Depression, the Interstate Highway Act in the 1950s, going to the moon in under a decade. I just hope this project doesn't get bogged down in squabbling and partisan politics. But alas, Faux News will probably find some way to spin it to show that HSR is communist/socialist/fascist, and that building it is an affront to liberty.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
I think the days of grandiose infrastructure projects is over with in the US. Too much political back-and-forth to get anything done down there--and up here too, sadly.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Quebec seeks high-speed rail funding
(AFP) – 13 hours ago
MONTREAL — A Canadian transport official said he plans to discuss plans for a high-speed rail linking Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto when he travels to Paris in the coming weeks.
Sam Hamad, the transport minister for Quebec province, said he would meet French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde to discuss the project and a similar one in Morocco.
But this "does not mean that Quebec will be asking France for money," said a spokesman for Hamad, Maxime Sauvageau.
France provided a loan of 625 million euros ($845 million) to Morocco in 2008 to help finance a high-speed rail link between Tangiers and Casablanca, that was to be designed, built, operated and maintained by French firms.
Proposals for linking eastern Canada's biggest cities by high-speed rail have been around for decades, but despite a dozen positive feasibility studies, none has ever materialized.
A new study ordered in 2009 is due to be released soon.
Hamad said Quebec strongly supports building the network, but added that Ottawa's position on the latest proposal was "not clear."
Canada's Federal Transport Minister Chuck Strahl was not immediately available for comment.
An engineer at train builder Bombardier told AFP that the project would cost an estimated $18 billion.
Hamad said he hoped US President Barack Obama's support for a rapid rail network linking Washington, New York and Boston would renew interest in high-speed trains in Canada, and that maybe the US line could be extended to Montreal.
(AFP) – 13 hours ago
MONTREAL — A Canadian transport official said he plans to discuss plans for a high-speed rail linking Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto when he travels to Paris in the coming weeks.
Sam Hamad, the transport minister for Quebec province, said he would meet French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde to discuss the project and a similar one in Morocco.
But this "does not mean that Quebec will be asking France for money," said a spokesman for Hamad, Maxime Sauvageau.
France provided a loan of 625 million euros ($845 million) to Morocco in 2008 to help finance a high-speed rail link between Tangiers and Casablanca, that was to be designed, built, operated and maintained by French firms.
Proposals for linking eastern Canada's biggest cities by high-speed rail have been around for decades, but despite a dozen positive feasibility studies, none has ever materialized.
A new study ordered in 2009 is due to be released soon.
Hamad said Quebec strongly supports building the network, but added that Ottawa's position on the latest proposal was "not clear."
Canada's Federal Transport Minister Chuck Strahl was not immediately available for comment.
An engineer at train builder Bombardier told AFP that the project would cost an estimated $18 billion.
Hamad said he hoped US President Barack Obama's support for a rapid rail network linking Washington, New York and Boston would renew interest in high-speed trains in Canada, and that maybe the US line could be extended to Montreal.
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
Nothing like the fear of Quebec going out on it's own to spark a little fear in the Fed's. It is always hard to tell what will be the tipping point in terms of getting HSR underway, but, perhaps if they went as far as to secure a loan, maybe that could be it? Though I am sure that point is going to be very soon.
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lead82
Senior Member
There is a good reason why the feds wont fund HSR in Canada. It would bankrupt our airline industry. Porter and Air Canada would go out of business. They make most of the revenue serving the rapid-air triangle of Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal as business travellers pay a lot of money to travel between these citiesl. Put in a high speed rail system and the commute time drops from 4-5 hrs to maybe 2.5-3hrs. That will incite many to switch to the train instead of air as the total commute will be equivalent but the train would (I hope) be cheaper than flying.
Mr.Tang
Active Member
Pretty surprised that Quebec would look to the French (ie. Alstom) given homegrown Bombardier interests.
Personally, though I'd love to leave Union and get to Montreal in a few hours, given the existing infrastructure invested in (airports) nd the successful businesses delivering the service (airlines) - not sure why the government wants to do this.
Personally, though I'd love to leave Union and get to Montreal in a few hours, given the existing infrastructure invested in (airports) nd the successful businesses delivering the service (airlines) - not sure why the government wants to do this.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
There are many reasons that the government might want to build high speed rail.
- There is a capacity problem with our existing infrastructure (Dorval and Pearson).
- There is the possibility of a successful business (VIA).
- Air travel cannot support the demand, especially for closer cities (ex. London to Windsor)
- The operating cost of HSR is lower per-rider than air travel.
- HSR would be faster than air travel.
- HSR has way less environmental impact
- There would be major employment created due to an HSR project
- We could make fun of countries with slower trains (such as the US).
etc.
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
Just look at Europe and see what HSR has done to travel. Short haul flights find their passenger load cut in half when new HSR routes open up. The reason is that for those distances HSR is the most efficient, comfortable, and usually fastest choice. Its because people genuinely find HSR a better way to travel that is has become so popular. Given enough support, and leading by the provinces. the Feds will quickly hope on to support it.
In Canada. HSR would be a vast improvement in travel over current options....in speed, comfort and cost. As for the airlines, Air Canada would live on for sure, and if Porter used the 8 - 10 year lead time to develop a business model focusing on serving destinations like St. Johns, Halifax, NYC, etc, it could reasonably continue on. And if you offered airlines a chance to own a small portion of the new HSR service, helping to compensate for loses with a new, potentially stronger source of revenue, the whole airline thing could be a non-issue.
Porter Rail: Train travel, refined... Very interesting idea.
Mulder
Active Member
Your very naive to think it would bankrupt Air Canada and Porter. Sure it would put flights for people going directly to Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City at risk. But Bankrupt?
dunkalunk
Senior Member
I don't see any reason why the airlines can't buy into it and codeshare. In fact, it would make a lot of sense if Air Canada and Porter to buy in, as it would effectively increase their service area and connectivity. Also, when petroleum gets to the point where it becomes too expensive to run short, cheap commercial flights, they could keep barebones air service, but still have some source of revenue. The high speed rail line would hit 2, potentially 3 international airports.
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
That could be one possibility. Whether you could have multiple HSR operators is another question, and I don't think it would make sense, though I don't rule the idea out either. But that doesn't mean Porter couldn't have a small ownership and offer its service model (which is really second to none) to the HSR operator to help them attract customers and rethink a number of aspects of rail travel.
There is also code-sharing with airlines. If, for example, an airline booked a flight where the destination was outside the corridor (Toronto to Sudbury for example), and added a HSR trip as well, they could receive a certain percentage of the rail ticket. And if you consider that Trudeau and Pearson alone have 45 million passengers a year, even just 5% of those people arriving by HSR would offer airlines a good opportunity to capture additional revenue just by up-selling HSR to get people to the airport.
golodhendil
Active Member
Indeed, Air France has been codesharing with TGV and Thalys for a while, and a few American airlines have joined in. Air France is also planning to directly enter the HSR market eventually.