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Rail: Ontario-Quebec High Speed Rail Study

Following the concessions would be very unpopular ... as that is where all the houses are ... along the concession. And I don't see how you get up the escarpment that way; the concession roads that cross it at Acton are Third Line and 22nd Sideroad ... both have wicked hills.

The existing alignment is amazing ... I don't understand the desire to move it.

Its a speed issue mostly. In order to run trains at 300km/h, the track would require radius curves of at least 5 km, which is simply not doable on the section of track between Limehouse and Guelph. You also have to consider road-rail grade separations, which can get incredibly expensive within built up areas which require more of them for cross-corridor access. There is also more cost associated with mitigating noise impacts and for land acquisition within a built up setting.

The rail corridor through Guelph is not expandable past 2 tracks. This would cause a bottleneck for passenger and freight along the high speed corridor and would eventually need to be addressed.

Yes, we could, and I think should electrify the existing Guelph Subdivision, as it is an important incremental step to building a high speed rail corridor, and environmentally responsible. However, as an ultimate solution, there would need to be a bypass. While the issue of aggregate resources and active quarries is important, and the route chosen would be chosen to keep these resources accessible, the escarpment is unavoidable, regardless of the routing chosen between Kitchener and Pearson.

Personally, I beleive any bypass would need to be built south of the current line, both from a distance standpoint and the obstacle presented by Guelph Lake and GRCA lands.

I also think we should be using existing rail and highway corridors wherever the curves can support 300 km/h. This not only makes staging easier, but reduces environmental/land use impacts associated with building a grade separated right of way.
 
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Perhaps a division of GO (or amalgamated transit group) could run trains serving the K-W-G (and Hamilton?) region. With a centralized HSR serving the entire region rather than a handfull of minor stations. How interconnected are the economies of K-W-G?

Also looking at the map posted and the issues raised about environmental impacts. Would the same issues be raised if the line were built to swerve North of Georgetown and following (what I think is hwy) the route of Hwy 7 just slightly north of it?
 
More people travel between and within KW, Guelph, and Cambridge than from this area to the GTA. Coupled with effective intercity rail, local commuter trains between the 3 centres would be a worthwhile endeavour.
 
Slow-speed Liberals boarding high-speed train
For many months, the Liberals, the party with an empty department-store window, have been flirting with the idea of high-speed rail.

The flirting, it seems, has now turned to serious engagement. With blessings from Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, Joe Volpe, the party's transportation critic, has been out beating the fast-rail drums. High-speed rail will be Canada's largest-scale project since the construction of the St. Lawrence Seaway, Mr. Volpe says.

Rail-industry officials have been called into Iggy's office for input and advice. They are almost certain, judging from their discussions, that the bullet trains will be in the Grit platform for an election that may be only a month or two away.

Mr. Ignatieff's inner sanctum isn't confirming or denying. The party is sticking to a strategy of holding off on major announcements until an election campaign is under way. That might work so long as an election is around the corner. But if the polling date is pushed back, how long can the party putter along in a policy void?

Meanwhile, another of Mr. Ignatieff's grand putative schemes, the development of a national power grid, appears to have been pushed down the priority list. High-speed rail (HSR) would be expensive enough without coupling it with another prodigious enterprise.

Liberals see the HSR benefits as outweighing the cost. They say Canada is falling behind, becoming the only industrialized country without high-speed rail. HSR is big not only in Europe; it is also hot in Japan, Russia, South Africa and Argentina, to name just a few countries. In the United States, President Barack Obama is making a big HSR pitch – and he is talking of transborder links with Canada.

Priority No. 1 in a Liberal plan would be the long-talked-about line from Quebec to Windsor, an area of high population density. A Calgary-Edmonton line, which also has been studied ad infinitum, is on the list too, even though the Alberta government is cool to the idea. And Mr. Volpe says Ottawa has to get serious with Washington on transborder, silver-bullet corridors.

Liberal proponents see a high-speed plan as scoring high on many policy fronts: jobs, economic development, the environment, national unity, consumer convenience. On construction alone, never mind the spinoffs, Mr. Volpe estimates that 270,000 jobs will be created over a 10-year period. On the environment, he talks of taking planes out of the sky, cars off the road, carbon emissions out of the air. On national unity, he asks, who can think of a better way to engage Quebec and Ontario in a co-operative economic, environmental and social plan? Even the Bloc Québécois supports the Windsor-Quebec project.

Then there are the downsides. With the country already taking on a major budget deficit, how can this be an appropriate time for such an extravagant enterprise? Even the rail lobby, while enthusiastic about HSR, has given Iggy's office data from Europe and Asia showing the lack of profitability of such ventures.

There are other questions. Would HSR really reduce car and jet traffic enough to have a significant environmental impact? Does Alberta have the population density to support it? What do you do with Via Rail? HSR would replace some of its busiest routes. How could it survive?

The best way of selling the rail project, some argue, is as a vehicle to help integrate a North American economy that is plagued by a thickening border and other trading woes. Put the plan in the context of links to Boston, New York, Seattle and Los Angeles, and high speed sounds far more enticing. That said, the Obama plans are only in the exploratory stage and they involve higher speed, not the superfast electric trains in Europe and elsewhere.

The Conservative government was initially cold to high-speed rail, but it now sees some merit in it. Yet another study involving the feds, Ontario and Quebec is under way. Some feel that it's possible the Tories might upend Grit plans by coming forward with a mild endorsement of HSR themselves. That's doubtful. More likely they will condemn a Liberal scheme as a giant, money-sucking boondoggle.

Mr. Ignatieff doesn't see it that way. He believes the country has been thinking too small. Time, he says, to rekindle some of the nation-building spirit of old. Time, he says, to get with the new century.

He needs something for the department-store window. In the post-carbon era, new trains might look good in there – especially if you don't look at the price tag.
 
This makes me even more hopeful the Liberals win the next election. I don't particularly like Ignatieff, but I'm glad that he supports these things.

But this seems like this is just talking about the Quebec-Windsor corridor. If they aren't, Calgary-Edmonton and Vancouver-Portland HSR should also be in the plan. They would both be major assets to other parts of the country, and would get the liberals votes in the west that wouldn't come from just Quebec-Windsor HSR.
 
It's not hard to like Ignatieff when the alternative is Harper.

I'm not sure Calgary-Edmonton would need full-blown TGV-style service. The best bet to me seems to be improving the rail corridor they have now, with dedicated track, and reserve a right of way for future upgrading if necessary. They could just run faster diesels.
 
exactly. HSR can be a series of small incremental projects instead of one big one.

Once a plan is in place for the eventual fully built Quebec-Windsor line, its just a matter of buying land and building it in stages as a bypass of the existing line. We can run diesels on high speed electrified track until its all finished.

We should think of the HSR as being the same as a highway that bypasses local roads. Cars can use a highway to gain a lot of speed, even before its been built to its full length, just as trains can with bits of high speed lines, just as long as its connected at both ends to the local rail networks.
 
It's not hard to like Ignatieff when the alternative is Harper.
True that :D

But I think that for the short length of Calgary-Edmonton, TGV-style service makes a lot of sense. The corridor has a good 2 million people across a 300 km stretch (that'd be about an hour from Edmonton to Calgary.) There's also a lot of commuting between Edmonton and Calgary, and just a lot of travel through the corridor in general.

Vancouver-Portland would be done with the US Government, similar to Toronto and Montreal-NY, and would require a lot more planning in that sense.
 
I would even say that it would be worthwhile that even if an Empire corridor high speed rail line never comes to pass, that the lakeshore line be upgraded to high speed standards between Toronto and Hamilton and electrifying to Niagara Falls. The right of way is already there to make it happen, and it would help to remove a lot of the strain on the QEW.

But apart from High Speed projects, other rail connections need to be built or upgraded to fill in gaps in the system. For example, the 407 corridor to act as a freight bypass through North Toronto and a connection between Waterloo-Wellington and Hamilton. It would also be wise to build intermodal facilities to move freight between trucks and rails. This infrastructure would help keep freight vehicles off of heavily used passenger rail corridors and reduce congestion on highways, mitigating the need for expansion (Mid-Peninsula Highway, 424, GTA West Corridor, ect).
 
But is it worth it to push speed from 200 kmph to 300 kmph to save 30 mins? That's substantially more cost without the benefit necessarily being there.
 
If the right of way is straight enough to allow trains to get up to a 300km/h speed for sustained periods, then I would say it is worth the cost. But if the distance between stops is short, for example, Union to Pearson, then 300km/h operating speed may not be practical enough to implement. However, the corridor between Long Branch and Aldershot is definitely capable of supporting 300km/h speeds given that the upgrades are made.
 
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To be clear, I was referring to HSR between Calgary and Edmonton.
 
This makes me even more hopeful the Liberals win the next election. I don't particularly like Ignatieff, but I'm glad that he supports these things.

But this seems like this is just talking about the Quebec-Windsor corridor. If they aren't, Calgary-Edmonton and Vancouver-Portland HSR should also be in the plan. They would both be major assets to other parts of the country, and would get the liberals votes in the west that wouldn't come from just Quebec-Windsor HSR.

So Ignatief kills the carbon tax, which would have been an a amazingly efficient way to encourage sustainable transportation, then comes out in support of an HSR line and now wants to be seen as promoting 'green' travel? Ballsy.
 
Does anyone know of an HSR line serving a population base as small as the Calgary-Edmonton corridor? I can't think of any. Regular VIA service is needed though, at a minimum.

Even the rail lobby, while enthusiastic about HSR, has given Iggy's office data from Europe and Asia showing the lack of profitability of such ventures.
I'm not sure about other countries but in France the TGV makes a big profit and subsidizes that country's slower trains. The Sud-Est line paid for itself years ago. France's population density is basically the same as Southern Ontario so it's worth looking at. I recall reading that Taiwan's new HSR is making a profit. IMO, profitability is a key part of selling the project.
 

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