Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[Urban Sky]

If you want to impair end-to-end travel times, by all means add more rural stops.

Just a quick note that stations only add travel time for those trains which actually stop there. Small stations would be adequately served with as little as 3 stops per day, allowing same-day-return (e.g., commuter) trips as well as mid-day trips. However, there still needs to be any relevant ridership potential to capture in the first place…

 

[micheal_can]

Granted Port Perry is closer to Myrtle Station, both of those communities are quite adequately proximate to Old Elm GO station. Future growth in Uxbridge is constrained by a lack of sewage capacity available on the York-Durham Sanitary Trunk System. I don't know for certain but would suspect Port Perry is similarly impacted.

I suspect that if a GO station was put near them, those issues could be resolved. TBH, Extending the Stoufville line would better serve the area. Durham is growing north,especially in the Whitby and Oshawa areas. If we want that area to be well served by rail transit having a station near them would be a good start. Itmight even just be an infill station.

If they are looking for a station stop to keep Durham Region happy (why?), Pontypool is a better bet, at least in term of access.

Pontypool is more in the middle of nowhere than most of the rest.

If you want to impair end-to-end travel times, by all means add more rural stops.

As Urbansky said, trains do not have to stop at all stops.Even some GO trains do not always stop at all stations on their lines.

 

[lenaitch]

I suspect that if a GO station was put near them, those issues could be resolved. TBH, Extending the Stoufville line would better serve the area. Durham is growing north,especially in the Whitby and Oshawa areas. If we want that area to be well served by rail transit having a station near them would be a good start. Itmight even just be an infill station.

The problem is both are smack dab in the middle of protected lands (Greenbelt/Oak Ridge moraine). There doesn't seem to be much political will, even at the local level, to grow the area and I have read that to expand the trunk system would be in the billions. It's obviously not a straight line but the distance from to southern limit of protected land to LSE is roughly 13km.

You are right that extending the Stouffville GO line would be comparatively easier; the ROW is railbanked by ML. That they have not done that, nor is there plans to, should be telling.

Pontypool is more in the middle of nowhere than most of the rest.

They're all currently "in the middle of nowhere". I only mentioned it because it has decent highway access. It wouldn't have to be any of the current spots along the ROW; I don't think anywhere along the GTA portion of the route is particularly well suited.

As Urbansky said, trains do not have to stop at all stops.Even some GO trains do not always stop at all stations on their lines.

True, but mixing local and inter-city service at any kind of frequency adds infrastructure and complexity. Not everything should be turned into a commuter service. To be clear, there is a difference between added local station stops to H?R service and adding GO service to the same ROW.

 

[rdaner]

CEO of planned Toronto-Quebec City rail project welcomes airline interest as Air Canada joins bid

Federal officials are now reviewing three bids for the project between Toronto and Quebec City and cabinet is expected to select a winner before the end of the year

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[micheal_can]

The problem is both a smack dab in the middle of protected lands (Greenbelt/Oak Ridge moraine). There doesn't seem to be much political will, even at the local level, to grow the area and I have read that to expand the trunk system would be in the billions. It's obviously not a straight line but the distance from to southern limit of protected land to LSE is roughly 13km.

So then when HxR is built, nothing is built there at that time. Infill stations are not a bad thing so long as provisions are made for it.

You are right that extending the Stouffville GO line would be comparatively easier; the ROW is railbanked by ML. That they have not done that, nor is there plans to, should be telling.

I am wondering if with the heritage railway not operating, they will start on plans there.

They're all currently "in the middle of nowhere". I only mentioned it because it has decent highway access. It wouldn't have to be any of the current spots along the ROW; I don't think anywhere along the GTA portion of the route is particularly well suited.

Highway 12 is a major highway in the area and the 412is right next to it. I have heard rumors that the 404and 412 are supposed to keep going north till they meet. If that ever happens, Myrtle is more attractive than Pontypool with that.

True, but mixing local and inter-city service at any kind of frequency adds infrastructure and complexity. Not everything should be turned into a commuter service. To be clear, there is a difference between added local station stops to H?R service and adding GO service to the same ROW.

It could be that Peterborough is the last/first stop for Via between it and Union, much like how is done along other lines that are shared with GO. I do think GO should go to Peterborough. If that is done, the Midtown line becomes a reality.

 

[cplchanb]

CEO of planned Toronto-Quebec City rail project welcomes airline interest as Air Canada joins bid

Federal officials are now reviewing three bids for the project between Toronto and Quebec City and cabinet is expected to select a winner before the end of the year

www.theglobeandmail.com

TLDR for us plebs who dont have a subscription?
if its what the title suggests one could already assume there was some bedroom action between HFR management and Cadence. seems like they already have a favourite in mind.

 

[innsertnamehere]

TLDR for us plebs who dont have a subscription?
if its what the title suggests one could already assume there was some bedroom action between HFR management and Cadence. seems like they already have a favourite in mind.

doesn't add too much, other than that there is clear public support for the higher speed option, and that Air Canada is likely getting into it as a part of it's de-carbonization goals. It could be in Air Canada's interest as it frees up airport slots for more profitable long-range flights, and allows them to reduce the carbon impact of large numbers of short-haul flights.

"If you can't beat them, join them" as the saying goes, seems to be what's happening here.

 

[cplchanb]

doesn't add too much, other than that there is clear public support for the higher speed option, and that Air Canada is likely getting into it as a part of it's de-carbonization goals. It could be in Air Canada's interest as it frees up airport slots for more profitable long-range flights, and allows them to reduce the carbon impact of large numbers of short-haul flights.

"If you can't beat them, join them" as the saying goes, seems to be what's happening here.

the cynical me is thinking AC may want to plant a mole inside HFR so that if they get the job they will find ways to scuttle the project in favour of air travel. they are like greeks offering gifts.

 

[guavadelic]

Nothing new, but an interesting interview with Martin Imbleau about HxR.

High-speed rail between Toronto and Quebec City likely still more than a decade away, says CEO

Martin Imbleau, the CEO of the VIA high-frequency rail (HFR) project, caught up with iPolitics to provide a progress update on the proposal to run a high-speed train through Québec City, Trois-Rivières, Laval, Montréal, Ottawa, Peterborough, and Toronto.

www.ipolitics.ca

I thought the following comment interesting:

This part made me chuckle.

Turning to politics, you introduced Ontario Premier Doug Ford at this year’s Association of Municipalities of Ontario conference. You called him a “steadfast advocate” for improving infrastructure and transportation, and then the premier came on stage and talked about highways for 15 minutes. Are you two on the same page?

 

[guavadelic]

My fear over a high end HSR system is the pricing, which would likely be forced to an air competitive level.. A system which is slower but cheaper might benefit more people. One can always price advance purchases lower etc however fundamentally we may get more value from lower fares than an ultimate airport-killer.

- Paul

Agreed. The high end HSR would likely be attracting business travelers who mostly fly in the corridor currently. The CEO however is positioning this service as a way to reduce vehicle congestion on the highway/roads, which would be heavily dependent on affordable pricing.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Agreed. The high end HSR would likely be attracting business travelers who mostly fly in the corridor currently. The CEO however is positioning this service as a way to reduce vehicle congestion on the highway/roads, which would be heavily dependent on affordable pricing.

Well, that's where the class system comes in - no reason why it can't serve both.

AoD

 

[lenaitch]

So then when HxR is built, nothing is built there at that time. Infill stations are not a bad thing so long as provisions are made for it.

Well, the ROW is there now. I've lost track (and can't be bothered to look) whether the H?R proposal calls for a single track with passing tracks or double track. I also vaguely recall some talk about greenfielding an alternate route near Toronto to avoid the Agincourt yard but have no idea when that stands, if anywhere. As mentioned above, adding local stops to an inter-city service is a differently thing than adding GO-level commuter service. when you start mixing service, you increase the need for more tracks, and the ROW can probably only handle so much. All bets would be off the table if HFR actually becomes HSR.

I am wondering if with the heritage railway not operating, they will start on plans there.

They own it and could have done whatever they wanted to do whenever they wanted to do it. I'm not privy to ML long range plans but, going by what I have heard on here, there are none.

Highway 12 is a major highway in the area and the 412is right next to it. I have heard rumors that the 404and 412 are supposed to keep going north till they meet. If that ever happens, Myrtle is more attractive than Pontypool with that.

I have not heard said rumour.

 

[DSC]

Well, the ROW is there now. I've lost track (and can't be bothered to look) whether the H?R proposal calls for a single track with passing tracks or double track. I also vaguely recall some talk about greenfielding an alternate route near Toronto to avoid the Agincourt yard but have no idea when that stands, if anywhere. As mentioned above, adding local stops to an inter-city service is a differently thing than adding GO-level commuter service. when you start mixing service, you increase the need for more tracks, and the ROW can probably only handle so much. All bets would be off the table if HFR actually becomes HSR.


They own it and could have done whatever they wanted to do whenever they wanted to do it. I'm not privy to ML long range plans but, going by what I have heard on here, there are none.


I have not heard said rumour.

Facts and more facts seem to make no difference to some people - you may be best to stop responding!

 

[roger1818]

the cynical me is thinking AC may want to plant a mole inside HFR so that if they get the job they will find ways to scuttle the project in favour of air travel. they are like greeks offering gifts.

Possible, but HxR will hurt Porter far more than it will hurt AC and Porter is filling the hole left behind by AC's strategy of funneling almost all travelers through Star Aliance hubs by offering direct flights from YOW that AC would rather have people connect in YUL or YYZ. As a result AC is likely embracing the proverb that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

More likely in my mind is that AC would add VIA Rail to Star Aliance to get exclusivity on codeshares with VIA Rail for them and their partners. Don't forget that AC is the only ariline that offers direct flights between YOW and YUL (though Air France/KLM have buses between YUL and the Ottawa Train Station). Those flights are likely offered at a loss to give them a competative advantage on long distance flights. HxR risks opening that up that connection to all other ailines that fly into YUL (and to a lesser extent YYZ). A similar situation exists in Quebec City, though Porter and Air Transat also have direct flights between YQB and YUL.

My guess is they would rebrand VIA Rail Canada, dropping the VIA and adding their Maple Leaf logo, something like this (pardon the poor edit):

 

[micheal_can]

Well, the ROW is there now. I've lost track (and can't be bothered to look) whether the H?R proposal calls for a single track with passing tracks or double track. I also vaguely recall some talk about greenfielding an alternate route near Toronto to avoid the Agincourt yard but have no idea when that stands, if anywhere. As mentioned above, adding local stops to an inter-city service is a differently thing than adding GO-level commuter service. when you start mixing service, you increase the need for more tracks, and the ROW can probably only handle so much. All bets would be off the table if HFR actually becomes HSR.

Very true. If it is HSR, then anything here would be pointless.

They own it and could have done whatever they wanted to do whenever they wanted to do it. I'm not privy to ML long range plans but, going by what I have heard on here, there are none.

I did not realize ML owned up to Uxbridge.

I have not heard said rumour.

404 Extension a Highway to Sprawl, Environmental Groups Charge | Pembina Institute

The extension of Highway 404 to Ravenshoe Road in the Town of East Gwillimbury (York Region), announced in the March 23 Ontario budget, and confirmed in the estimates released April 11, threatens the newly established Golden Horseshoe Greenbelt and will promote sprawling urban development of...

www.pembina.org