ArcticS
New Member
But what good is all this if there isn't even a law forcing the builder to correct anything found in the PDI?
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Pre-delivery Inspection and occupancy fees
- Thread starter ArcticS
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
In my experience, threaten to complain the better business bureau works wonders. Even if they resolve the complaint, it remains on record. The company, therefore, will always do what it takes to avoid a complaint. This probably more effective than threatening legal action.
If you go to a PDI and there is still stuff to be done, just do what I did...
1) Refuse to sign any documentation. They will say "oh this is just to say that you read the sheet, etc." Just refuse to sign.
2) Explain to them that when they call it a PDI, you expect the house to be in a deliverable condition.
3) You would like for them to re-schedule a PDI, when they have finished working.
4) Make them understand that.....This is going to be your home and the biggest investment you have ever made. Yes its probably the millionth home they have built, but its extremely important to you, and you do not appreciate their cavalier attitude towards your future abode and investment.
5) If things are really bad....write letters to the President of the company, with aforementioned threats included, and CC your site manager.
If you go to a PDI and there is still stuff to be done, just do what I did...
1) Refuse to sign any documentation. They will say "oh this is just to say that you read the sheet, etc." Just refuse to sign.
2) Explain to them that when they call it a PDI, you expect the house to be in a deliverable condition.
3) You would like for them to re-schedule a PDI, when they have finished working.
4) Make them understand that.....This is going to be your home and the biggest investment you have ever made. Yes its probably the millionth home they have built, but its extremely important to you, and you do not appreciate their cavalier attitude towards your future abode and investment.
5) If things are really bad....write letters to the President of the company, with aforementioned threats included, and CC your site manager.
pickleberry
New Member
The majority of problems listed in my PDI are still unresolved, 352 days after taking occupancy. I am partly to blame though - I accidentally submitted my 30 day form one day late, Tarion refused to accept it, therefore no inspection.
I made sure that the year end form got in. All 6 pages of it.
The only life-affecting issue in the first few days was a lack of shower curtain rod, meaning I could only take a bath. Big deal.
My bigger concern during the whole occupancy period is that a chunk of the occupancy fee is based on the condo fee; many of the common area facilities are incomplete so you are paying a full fee for a fraction of the amenity.
I made sure that the year end form got in. All 6 pages of it.
The only life-affecting issue in the first few days was a lack of shower curtain rod, meaning I could only take a bath. Big deal.
My bigger concern during the whole occupancy period is that a chunk of the occupancy fee is based on the condo fee; many of the common area facilities are incomplete so you are paying a full fee for a fraction of the amenity.
dpylyp
Active Member
closings
Has anyone had their lawyer deal with the closings and the level of incompletions; It would make sense to holdback for certain items, then remit those funds on successful completion?
Has anyone had their lawyer deal with the closings and the level of incompletions; It would make sense to holdback for certain items, then remit those funds on successful completion?
pickleberry
New Member
Tarion has a process in place to deal with incompletions - for a lawyer to start holding back would go against that and I imagine that would cause more problems than it would solve. I think many lawyers who want an easy life and easy cash wouldn't entertain the idea.
ArcticS
New Member
I really wish I had held back on signing at the PDI, but didn't. It's been 2 weeks now, and they've called me a few times asking if they are allowed to enter the primises, and I've given them the go ahead always, but not one thing has been corrected.
What angers me even more is that I hear from the neighbors that their homes are fine and they only had small items to report.
I'm thinking the best course of action at this point is to have my lawyer proceed with whatever she does, as well as submit the claim to Tarion. Then, the next time the builders rep calls me asking for permission to enter the unit, I'll mention the BBB.
What angers me even more is that I hear from the neighbors that their homes are fine and they only had small items to report.
I'm thinking the best course of action at this point is to have my lawyer proceed with whatever she does, as well as submit the claim to Tarion. Then, the next time the builders rep calls me asking for permission to enter the unit, I'll mention the BBB.
andrejeffry
Active Member
Thanks for the advises. Mine is coming next week, 2 freakin days before occupancy date!!! I entered the premise last week, and it was nowhere in occupancy condition and this is from a well-known developer, Minto.
I'm planning to visit with my lawyer this week seeking advises on what to expect or do during the inspection
Any other tips that you can give me?
nodoubtguy
Active Member
If you know someone in the trade, take them with you. I took my boss, an owner of a construction/home reno company, with me.....best move ever. saw things I never would have thought about.
Solaris
Senior Member
nodoubtguy...can you suggest what some of these defects your boss picked up on were? so that we can all look out for it in our own PDI's?
ArcticS
New Member
Just wanted to give an updated on this.
I had emailed Tarion asking them these questions, and within a day, someone from Tarion called me to explain further.
The stated that by law, for a house to be in the level to allow occupancy, it only has to have the basic necessities for living including standing walls, running water (doesn't have to be hot), 1 flushing toilet and 1 working sink. Beyond the necessities, they have no obligations at occupancy.
I don't recall what he mentioned about the length of time they have to address items in the PDI, but I believe it was 120 days.
Items listed on the 30 day and 1 year inspections must be addressed within 120 days. They also said both forms must be submitted before the 30 day / 1 year dates or they will not be looked at.
I had emailed Tarion asking them these questions, and within a day, someone from Tarion called me to explain further.
The stated that by law, for a house to be in the level to allow occupancy, it only has to have the basic necessities for living including standing walls, running water (doesn't have to be hot), 1 flushing toilet and 1 working sink. Beyond the necessities, they have no obligations at occupancy.
I don't recall what he mentioned about the length of time they have to address items in the PDI, but I believe it was 120 days.
Items listed on the 30 day and 1 year inspections must be addressed within 120 days. They also said both forms must be submitted before the 30 day / 1 year dates or they will not be looked at.
Xenosblitz
Active Member
Sorry to dig up this thread, but I couldn't find the answer to the following question online even after spending 2 hours looking.
Is the requirements for occupancy (i.e. running water, heat, etc.) written down anywhere? I'm concerned about parking. A sales person told me today that it is possible occupancy can occur even if the parking is not available for a few months. Is this true?
Is the requirements for occupancy (i.e. running water, heat, etc.) written down anywhere? I'm concerned about parking. A sales person told me today that it is possible occupancy can occur even if the parking is not available for a few months. Is this true?
Xenosblitz
Active Member
I finally had a chance to meet up with a real estate lawyer. In case anybody is interested, providing access to the parking space you bought for a condo is not a necessity of occupancy. Thus, theoretically, if your parking spot has some problems with it, the builder can still make you pay occupancy fees if the unit itself is in a habitable condition (I believe that means you have running water and heat. The appliances don't even have to work.)
chwong
New Member
Please keep this thread alive. I will be closing my pre-construction condo next year, I need to read up and prepare myself. Thank you everyone for sharing such important information.
mno
New Member
Hi all,
Sorry, this is a bit off-topic, but I'm not allowed to post a new one in this thread. I just did the finishes and colours selection for my unit, and just now received the document to sign and get back to the builder regarding the finalization of this step. As I'm on a high floor of a condo, I was able to select most of the upgrades (backsplash, kitchen cabinets, floors, kitchen countertops, bath vanity, bath floors, bath tiles, bath cabinets) without extra cost. All these are marked as "Upgrade" and "Upgrade Included" on this agreement.
Then, there is Clause 2. It states: "It is agreed that any upgrades/extras provided to the Purchaser through this request shall not be subject to Tarion". The builder said this is quite normal for pre-construction condos. I called my lawyer and Tarion about this, both said this is not standard. My lawyer suggested some next steps, but Tarion basically told me to tell my builder to contact Tarion about this.
In any case, I've not yet signed this agreement, and wanted to get some advice from others. Did anyone else face things like this?
Thank you in advance.
Sorry, this is a bit off-topic, but I'm not allowed to post a new one in this thread. I just did the finishes and colours selection for my unit, and just now received the document to sign and get back to the builder regarding the finalization of this step. As I'm on a high floor of a condo, I was able to select most of the upgrades (backsplash, kitchen cabinets, floors, kitchen countertops, bath vanity, bath floors, bath tiles, bath cabinets) without extra cost. All these are marked as "Upgrade" and "Upgrade Included" on this agreement.
Then, there is Clause 2. It states: "It is agreed that any upgrades/extras provided to the Purchaser through this request shall not be subject to Tarion". The builder said this is quite normal for pre-construction condos. I called my lawyer and Tarion about this, both said this is not standard. My lawyer suggested some next steps, but Tarion basically told me to tell my builder to contact Tarion about this.
In any case, I've not yet signed this agreement, and wanted to get some advice from others. Did anyone else face things like this?
Thank you in advance.
chwong
New Member
Thank you very much bringing this to my attention. I went through this process of choosing the finishes and colors selections too in Nov. Before I knew it, the bill was more than 7000.00 strong. It is nothing fancy,just hardwood floors for the unit and light color paint instead of all white,(all white reminds me of hospital). I was not aware of the Tarion issue at all. Buying one's first condo suppose to be a joyous event, but it seems there are so many land mines. Like I said before, please keep this thread alive. Otherwise I feel like just probing in the dark.