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JoeyCuppa
Guest
The above is all I will say. Arguing doesn't solve anything.
No worries, cdl.
No worries, cdl.
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shawnmicallef
Guest
Pedestrians can cross the street wherever they want, they just can't jaywalk against red lights.
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spmarshall
Guest
I'm back again from Montreal, where bike lanes are separated from other traffic with both paint and plastic fixed pylons, with many more signals. The way they are designed, parked cars are between the bike lanes and the curb, creating an extra buffer. The network there is not ideal, but they sure take biking more seriously. If only we had Velo-Quebec here.
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FortySixAndTwo462
Guest
Quoting JoeyCuppa:
"I *am* a cyclist. For anyone who thinks that cyclists are "more reckless" than drivers, I am jealous that you have never been almost run over by a car driver doing something stupid and impatient and against the law.
Cyclists may take more liberties with stop signs and traffic lights, but when's the last time you heard of someone being killed by a bicycle? How many traffic fatalities do we have so far this year? 25?"
Nobody is saying that cyclists are more reckless than drivers, simply that if cyclists are reckless and don't abide by traffic regulations, they're more likely to get hit and result in an ugly situation. It's simple common sense.
Consider this scenario: a cyclist takes "a liberty" with a red light and runs it, only to get hit by a car that can't brake in time. Who's to blame is pretty much irrelevant, as you end up with one dead or maimed cyclist, and a driver crushed by the burden of guilt and ridiculous insurance premiums.
"I *am* a cyclist. For anyone who thinks that cyclists are "more reckless" than drivers, I am jealous that you have never been almost run over by a car driver doing something stupid and impatient and against the law.
Cyclists may take more liberties with stop signs and traffic lights, but when's the last time you heard of someone being killed by a bicycle? How many traffic fatalities do we have so far this year? 25?"
Nobody is saying that cyclists are more reckless than drivers, simply that if cyclists are reckless and don't abide by traffic regulations, they're more likely to get hit and result in an ugly situation. It's simple common sense.
Consider this scenario: a cyclist takes "a liberty" with a red light and runs it, only to get hit by a car that can't brake in time. Who's to blame is pretty much irrelevant, as you end up with one dead or maimed cyclist, and a driver crushed by the burden of guilt and ridiculous insurance premiums.
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andreapalladio
Guest
^And if the cyclist hadn't been foolish, reckless and presumed himself above the law, none of it ever would have happened.
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gboykovekin
Guest
What cyclists need are responsive traffic lights that have sensors that are set to recognize their presence. Cyclists have the right to treat malfunctioning lights as a stop sign if the opposing way is clear, but are responsible for their own safety in such a case.
And please, I have to reiterate, no segregated bicycle paths/lanes with barriers or with different grading; what's wrong with the traffic rules as it is now?
And please, I have to reiterate, no segregated bicycle paths/lanes with barriers or with different grading; what's wrong with the traffic rules as it is now?
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cassiusa
Guest
That can be said for just about any "accident", not just this hypothetical (unobservant) biker.^And if the cyclist hadn't been foolish, reckless and presumed himself above the law, none of it ever would have happened.
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andreapalladio
Guest
No, just those accidents cause buy someone who deliberately breaks the law, like in the hypothetical above.
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Darkstar416
Guest
They don't work. People park/drive/stand in the bike lanes. In some cases they even use them as dangerous "passing lanes." Which is why pretty much every European city and an increasing amount of N. American cities have grade/barrier separated bike lanes.And please, I have to reiterate, no segregated bicycle paths/lanes with barriers or with different grading; what's wrong with the traffic rules as it is now?
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gboykovekin
Guest
Darkstar416 said:They don't work. People park/drive/stand in the bike lanes. In some cases they even use them as dangerous "passing lanes." Which is why pretty much every European city and an increasing amount of N. American cities have grade/barrier separated bike lanes.
If more cyclists understood that bike lanes as they are now, are just an additional traffic lane (albeit, narrower) and they are allowed to use the other lanes as well, there wouldn't be as much a problem. Think of them as
Then why has London, ON admitted its mistake in having grade-separated bike lanes adjacent to sidewalks?
I'm sorry if I sound too polemic, but as a cyclist by choice I get along just fine with the current system and 95% of motorists do too. Education would be more cost-effective than having separate facilities constructed.
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bizorky
Guest
In Ottawa there are numerous on-street bike lanes. Generally, car drivers seem to obey them. Problems never arise from the majority, but the minority. It takes only a small number of drivers to pose a significant danger to cyclists.
When it comes to cyclists, however, I will never cease to be amazed at the risks some will take when on the road. Flying through stop signs and red lights is pretty standard stuff, as is a lack of signalling. Some cyclists seem to assume that everyone will know what they are about to do, and will automatically react.
I agree with the idea of eduction when it comes to cyclists and drivers. As a cyclist myself, I think a concerted campaign of bike safety is necessary, and could be supported through ticketing the small fleet of bike-using morons that drive the rest of us crazy with their antics, and generally give cyclists a bad name.
When it comes to cyclists, however, I will never cease to be amazed at the risks some will take when on the road. Flying through stop signs and red lights is pretty standard stuff, as is a lack of signalling. Some cyclists seem to assume that everyone will know what they are about to do, and will automatically react.
I agree with the idea of eduction when it comes to cyclists and drivers. As a cyclist myself, I think a concerted campaign of bike safety is necessary, and could be supported through ticketing the small fleet of bike-using morons that drive the rest of us crazy with their antics, and generally give cyclists a bad name.
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Chuck100
Guest
Excellent idea. A bicycle safety blitz would be a great way of weeding out the biggest offenders. Most cyclists are unaware that they would easily rack up hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars a day in fines if they were constantly being monitored. If I remember correctly, most bike offfenses carry a penalty of $270.
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Citywriter
Guest
Excellent idea. A bicycle safety blitz would be a great way of weeding out the biggest offenders. Most cyclists are unaware that they would easily rack up hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars a day in fines if they were constantly being monitored. If I remember correctly, most bike offfenses carry a penalty of $270.
What's the fine for driving or parking in a bike lane? Try enforcing those laws -- which are never enforced -- and biking would be a lot easier and safer.
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simply Dan
Guest
For parking in a bike lane, cars should be immediatly towed and have at least a $500 fine imposed.
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andreapalladio
Guest
And for riding a bike on the sidewalk, or for failing to signal a turn or stop, or for riding at night without proper lights, the bike confiscated and the same fine.