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Policing Attitudes
- Thread starter bobbob911
- Start date
Peepers
Banned
What is noteworthy in the first video clip is the person arrested ( I believe his name is John Erb) was charged by police with "resisting arrest and assault". When you watch the video you can see that no assault on police (by Erb) or resisting arrest occurred.
What actually happened is when Erb raised his voice one officer shouted "inciting" at which point the other cop moved in and slipped the handcuff on Erb who, you will notice, stood passively and did not resist in any way.
Laying false charges is a serious offense!
In fact it is a CRIMINAL offense There needs to be a full investigation into who laid the false charges. That person(s) must be fired and must go to prison. Also, at the very end of the video we see one of the cops - who had been restraining Erb charge at and assault the guy recording the video. Again clearly criminal conduct by the cop caught on cam. He should lose his job and go to jail as would anyone else who physically assaults a bystander standing on the street with a camera.
In the second video we can see just how serious the police assault was on that woman. Blood is dripping from her face and periorbital hematoma around both eyes is already evident.
In Ontario - under the Police Services Act - the Chief of Police MUST immediately inform the SIU when anyone is seriously injured in an interaction with police. The severity of this woman's injuries demanded that the SIU be called in immediately.
This was not done. Why?
The SIU would get involved only when they learned of the brutal assault through the media..
The same thing happened in the brutal attack on the young father - Ross Kennedy described above. Despite pummeling his face and nearly asphyxiating him in front of his young family - the Police did not call in the SIU as they are required by law. It would be up to his wife to contact the SIU.
Everyone within the Toronto Police Force with responsibility to notify the SIU - up to and including Bill Blair needs to be investigated. If found in violation of the Police act they must be fired and disciplined.
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dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I saw one of the arrests on the news which prompted me to search for these latest videos on YouTube given the topic here. Inciting Police is just not a smart thing to do but I don't think it warrants arrest. It should be noted that some of these folks are professional protesters looking to cause trouble.
I've personally witnessed many instances of police abuse of power over the years both at my place of work and in my neighbourhood, right down to two officers kicking the crap out of someone late at night out in behind the back of my building last fall. I can't say what the circumstances were but I know what I saw and I kept on walking.
I have a feeling it's going to be a long hot summer with more Occupy protests, not just in Toronto, and more video like this hitting the 'net.
I've personally witnessed many instances of police abuse of power over the years both at my place of work and in my neighbourhood, right down to two officers kicking the crap out of someone late at night out in behind the back of my building last fall. I can't say what the circumstances were but I know what I saw and I kept on walking.
I have a feeling it's going to be a long hot summer with more Occupy protests, not just in Toronto, and more video like this hitting the 'net.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Well, some of us do call them pigs for a reason.
typezed
Active Member
My take is that the local police aren't malicious or corrupt relative to most places in the world, but that they're a large ponderous self-involved bureaucracy that lazily gets away with what it can. That the head of the union is the son of a former chief of police and that both that union head and his brother have been involved in significant corruption accusations does make it look like there's the kind of sleazy underbelly here reminiscent of LA Confidential type of stories, but I still think that institutional privilege is the dominant force rather than individual graft. A thought experiment: when you're on your daily travels in the city, compare the number of TTC employees (or their working vehicles) that you see relative to the number of police representatives. They must be comparable organizations in terms of employee numbers and budget pressure. There are times when I can walk a good chunk of downtown and unless I was within a couple blocks of the station, I wouldn't recall seeing any police except when they were doing paid-duty work beside a construction site (it seems to me they're now less visible doing that too - a good thing). I know that not every police officer is in uniform, but then not every TTC worker is front-line. If I'm out in any part of the city in the daytime, I will see many many TTC workers.
For what they cost, police should have a much more visible (and mostly non-threatening) presence on the streets, maintaining a low-level basic order. Maybe if they were out there regularly instead of relying on publicity blitzes there'd be less bitter complaint in this city of the kind that says all cyclists run red lights, or drivers are parking everywhere in bike lanes.
A witnessed incident that illustrates my concern: A couple summers ago, on the day that Spain won the World Cup, I was watching the last few minutes with a couple friends in the bar at the Sheraton, across from City Hall. After the final goal was scored we walked up Yonge to Yonge-Dundas Square. We weren't travelling fast. When we arrived there traffic had stopped because celebrants had taken over the intersection. Stopped travelling north on Yonge, about five, six cars back from the intersection, was that hippo tourist vehicle. Some of the rejoicing decided to climb on top the hippo and wave their flags from there. At first the tourists travelling on board seemed to think it was funny but after five, ten minutes of yahoos marching over the roof, rocking the hippo, and trying to climb in the windows you could see them becoming anxious. It was left to one small young Asian female guide to try to push a bunch of overexcited young males back from the windows. Eventually the tourists left out the back. It probably went on for twenty minutes from the time I arrived, and no sign of one police officer, despite the fact that a very large station was probably no further away from the square than is the Sheraton I had walked from. Shouldn't the police be aware that large demonstrations always happen at Yonge-Dundas Square? It's a very busy area, shouldn't there be almost a constant police presence moving through the Square and intersection and along the neighbouring streets? All it took was one car turning on its siren to see everyone scamper off the bus, although they didn't then clear the street. When police did arrive it was as a squad of several officers and cars. If there aren't enough officers to keep a visible presence on the streets, from where do they then marshal the larger mobs to over respond to incidents? A few years back, when a deer wandered into the core, it was reported that large numbers of police and emergency personnel responded to that, to spend a couple hours staring Bambi down.
For what they cost, police should have a much more visible (and mostly non-threatening) presence on the streets, maintaining a low-level basic order. Maybe if they were out there regularly instead of relying on publicity blitzes there'd be less bitter complaint in this city of the kind that says all cyclists run red lights, or drivers are parking everywhere in bike lanes.
A witnessed incident that illustrates my concern: A couple summers ago, on the day that Spain won the World Cup, I was watching the last few minutes with a couple friends in the bar at the Sheraton, across from City Hall. After the final goal was scored we walked up Yonge to Yonge-Dundas Square. We weren't travelling fast. When we arrived there traffic had stopped because celebrants had taken over the intersection. Stopped travelling north on Yonge, about five, six cars back from the intersection, was that hippo tourist vehicle. Some of the rejoicing decided to climb on top the hippo and wave their flags from there. At first the tourists travelling on board seemed to think it was funny but after five, ten minutes of yahoos marching over the roof, rocking the hippo, and trying to climb in the windows you could see them becoming anxious. It was left to one small young Asian female guide to try to push a bunch of overexcited young males back from the windows. Eventually the tourists left out the back. It probably went on for twenty minutes from the time I arrived, and no sign of one police officer, despite the fact that a very large station was probably no further away from the square than is the Sheraton I had walked from. Shouldn't the police be aware that large demonstrations always happen at Yonge-Dundas Square? It's a very busy area, shouldn't there be almost a constant police presence moving through the Square and intersection and along the neighbouring streets? All it took was one car turning on its siren to see everyone scamper off the bus, although they didn't then clear the street. When police did arrive it was as a squad of several officers and cars. If there aren't enough officers to keep a visible presence on the streets, from where do they then marshal the larger mobs to over respond to incidents? A few years back, when a deer wandered into the core, it was reported that large numbers of police and emergency personnel responded to that, to spend a couple hours staring Bambi down.
voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
Actually, they called in the SWAT team to handle Bambi -- so brave are the men in blue who stand between us and danger.
Sometimes I struggle to determine whether I am more angry about the corrupt and ungovernable nature of our police, or more embarrassed by their stupidity and incompetence.
At the end of the day, it's just great to know that so much of my tax money is used to buy them surburban houses and pick-up trucks that they park illegally (but unticketed and for free) on the streets that I also pay for. FML.
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voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
And the hits just keep on comin': ‘Aggressive’ coyote shot dead by Toronto police near Cherry Beach
I sometimes think the TPS looks at the portrayal of the police in South Park and The Simpsons as inspiration.
G
gabe
Guest
Agree they should have a non-threatening presence on the streets. But gone are the days when the friendly officer would tip his hat and say good day! The police now a days walk around with an intimating presence, maybe they think they will scare away the bad guys if they act all tough? They dress all dark navy with combat boots and some officers i have seen are dressed like they are ready to fight in a war. Every big city in Canada and the states is the same sadly.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
My young daughters are always waving to passing police and they always get a friendly response. I've been on my motorcycle and had friendly chats with motorbike police at stop lights.
typezed
Active Member
Contrast a couple news reports from yesterday to think about our police priorities and effectiveness. In one report, an immigrant restaurant owner on Bloor St. was charged with assault after tussling with a petty thief who was targeting his property. Like the Lucky Moose owner, he can be seen to have resorted to individual action after reporting past incidents to the police and receiving little response or interest in his troubles. Meanwhile, from Forest Hill to the Spit the police stage a big production for the cameras, a May Day parade of slick equipment and vehicles. The hero stuff probably pays off well for the police as bloated organization, convincing the public that they are all that stand between us and unimaginable dangers. But, we should ask, if we were a small business owner and the same identifiable person kept coming back and knicking our stuff, would the police be sympathetic and helpful to us, or would our case be viewed as too small-scale and labour intensive?. And, which grade of actions (street beat or hurt locker) from the police would have the more significant effect on quality of life in the city?
Voltz
Senior Member
My experience has been more or less the exact opposite, I'm not sure where you are getting that from.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
In fairness, our laws in Canada are skewed, these occurrences aren't the fault of police. The US has it right here, if threatened they can defend themselves, if someone breaks into a home the homeowner has a right to defend their home. Not here. My building has had a couple of doors kicked in during the day when people are at work & robbed. At a recent meeting that the landlord held for residents with the security company & Metro Police someone asked to what extent can they defend themselves if that were to happen to them and they were home. "None" said the officer, only after one has been assaulted can one fight back - and not until. We have no right to protect our property, "call 9-1-1 immediately" the officer advised.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Lovely enough but have you ever been wrongfully arressted, wrongfully charged with a violent crime, or had the shit kicked out of you for not complying with an officer's unreasonable request?
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt to prove they're a decent human being but it seems to be that municipal police forces draw some serious assholes. Exception : the OPP seem to be highly professional and for that I have the highest respect for them.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I doubt we will reach the day when police are actually angry and hostile to little girls waving hello.
typezed
Active Member
My purpose in mentioning the difficulties of the shopkeepers wasn't to argue for greater latitude for citizens taking on suspected criminals. We see in Florida where that can lead. My point is that these incidents happened because our large and expensive police force is too disengaged and unresponsive to properly meet the needs of citizens victimized by small-time criminals. In the Lucky Moose incident, I believe it took the police awhile to arrive after being told that a suspect was being held for them, despite the fact that the Lucky Moose is probably less than a five minute walk from 52 Division, and that Chinatown is always teeming with people and thus merits regular patrol.