Policing Attitudes

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Do you really believe that?

Do you honestly believe the majority of people in this city are losing trust in the police?

Do you really believe we live in a police state? Do you know what a true police state looks like?

The angriest most Torontonians ever get at police is when they get a speeding ticket.

Get a grip.

Why is it so offensive to acknowledge that Toronto's police are ungovernable? There is a clear pattern of police conduct that demonstrates an unwillingness to be subject to civilian oversight, and an unwillingness (in some cases) or inability (in other cases) for politicians to bring them to heel. The overt falsehood of the barrel-sucker, "our cops are tops" mentality reflects very poorly on its bearers. When the entire undercover force in the Club District has to be disbanded because it was running a drug dealing and extortion racket, it makes barrel-sucker police defenders look foolish. When the G20 fiasco happens, it makes barrel-sucker police defenders look foolish. When barrel-suckers attack those who merely acknowledge the reality of ungovernable police, it makes the barrel-sucker police defenders look foolish. Barrel-suckers need to get a grip, but on something other than the barrels they feverishly suck and jealously defend.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

From the 2005 Toronto Life feature on Heisey:

A TPSB source told the Star, "so, OK, what Heisey did was not wise. But it's scary for everybody around it. There's a sense that if you're not a cheerleader for the police, they may get you. You know--one misstep and watch out!" People had their ideas about the reasons behind the leak. They noted, for instance, how the memo furor occurred just as the inquiry into Norm Gardner's alleged misconduct had gotten under way, and how the Heisey matter might deflect attention from Gardner's woes--a conspiracy theory that had traction in certain sections of city hall. They noted, too, that Heisey had been making noises about developing a plan for a new independent complaints system on alleged police misconduct, and that a Heisey board was likely to apply greater scrutiny to the $700-million police budget. Only the board had the authority to examine the budget on line items; with its power to hire and fire the chief, this amounted to its greatest responsibility.

The Heisey board, in other words, promised to reinvigorate civilian oversight, which had dissipated during the Harris years. "Under the Tories and Lastman, the appointments tended to be more police friendly," says Marcel Wieder, a one-time political consultant to the police association. "Now the rank and file don't trust the civilian oversight because [those in civilian oversight] don't understand what they do. They have the sense that they're second-guessing them. Any time the Police Services Board tries to use its mandate to oversee, the police think they're trying to infringe on how they're doing their job. They see things in black and white: you're for us or against us."

When the police use overt intimidation to control their civilian bosses, I'm not sure what to call it other than a police state. What would the barrel-suckers call it, if not "police state"? Nirvana? Utopia? Valhalla?

 

[Admiral Beez]

have not only cost the city $Millions but have resulted in most of the public losing trust in the police.

Unlike Peepers I can only speak for myself, but I have complete faith in the TPS. Anyone who is willing to put themselves between my family and danger, and protect my property at their risk of peril is a friend of mine. Yes, there are bad police officers, but I've never met one.

 

[ttk77]

Unlike Peepers I can only speak for myself, but I have complete faith in the TPS. Anyone who is willing to put themselves between my family and danger, and protect my property at their risk of peril is a friend of mine. Yes, there are bad police officers, but I've never met one.

The problem in my mind is that the good ones don't seem willing to help root out the bad ones. This gives the whole force a bad name.

 

[cdr108]

The problem in my mind is that the good ones don't seem willing to help root out the bad ones. This gives the whole force a bad name.

blue wall of silent protects their own because some sadly cast a broad brush upon the bunch of one rotten apple.

 

[nfitz]

blue wall of silent protects their own because some sadly cast a broad brush upon the bunch of one rotten apple.

Indeed. The behaviour the majority of the department is disgraceful. Between the failure to identify those who were beating civilians during the G20, or report fellow officers who removed their nametags, or even to refuse speaking to the SIU, many in the department should be terminated with prejudice. That a police chief himself (Julian Fantino) was shown to be bent by a judge, shows the problem starts at the top.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

blue wall of silent protects their own because some sadly cast a broad brush upon the bunch of one rotten apple.

The head of the police union (and son of the ex Chief of Police) and the entire 52 division plainclothes unit is "one rotten apple"? Wouldn't the other, supposedly non-rotten, apples be better off if the rotten ones were removed from the barrel?

 

[adma]

Should we get the our-cops-are(n't)-tops talk into another thread?

 

[SunriseChampion]

As the son of immigrants from a formerly communist regime I wouldn't call this a police state. By the same token, however, a lot police behaviour I've personally encountered and heard of makes me sick and mistrustful of all cops. In fact, I generally dislike police officers.

Yes, adma, you're probably right.

 

[Peepers]

You're forgetting poor Alan Heisey, who didn't even get the chance to stand up to the police:



Justice Robins thought it appropriate to provide some interesting commentary on the smear campaign:

Your right , I forgot all about Alan Heisey. The fact is there is a culture of corruption that extends up to the present day. Even Police Vice-Chair - Michael Thompson (who is about as pro-cop as you can get) was the subject of intimidation by Bully Blairs top brass before a board meeting last year. http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/04/14/17999306.html

 

[Peepers]

Unlike Peepers I can only speak for myself, but I have complete faith in the TPS. Anyone who is willing to put themselves between my family and danger, and protect my property at their risk of peril is a friend of mine. Yes, there are bad police officers, but I've never met one.

I'm glad that you have only had good encounters with police officers and I hope it stays that way but not everyone is so lucky. Just last week, Ross Kennedy, a young father of two little girls was attacked by two undercover cops in street clothes who mistook his home address. The vicious attack was witnessed by his two little girls and his young wife. According to his description the cops "took every breath away from him". From this description I have no doubt that they were trying to kill this innocent man (in front of his family!) using a method called "Positional Asphyxia" which is the most common cause of death of persons in police custody. This is how Toronto Cops killed Junior Manon and most likely how Charlie McGillvary was killed when he was tackled by officers while on his nightly walk with his mom in another case of mistaken identity (although the medical examiner ruled it "natural causes" ).

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/26/what-happened-to-ross

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm glad that you have only had good encounters with police officers and I hope it stays that way but not everyone is so lucky. Just last week, Ross Kennedy, a young father of two little girls was attacked by two undercover cops in street clothes who mistook his home address. The vicious attack was witnessed by his two little girls and his young wife. According to his description the cops "took every breath away from him". From this description I have no doubt that they were trying to kill this innocent man (in front of his family!) using a method called "Positional Asphyxia" which is the most common cause of death of persons in police custody. This is how Toronto Cops killed Junior Manon and most likely how Charlie McGillvary was killed when he was tackled by officers while on his nightly walk with his mom in another case of mistaken identity (although the medical examiner ruled it "natural causes" ).

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/26/what-happened-to-ross

In general people have good encounters with police. We need to make sure not to give all officers a bad name because of a few isolated situations.

 

[Peepers]

Good idea starting a new thread although may I suggest a different title for the thread:

"Police abuses and culture of corruption"

Since this is what we are really talking about here.

 

[Peepers]

Here we go again! Another day and another person falsely arrested and charged by Toronto's so-called "finest". This time its a young lady (an artist) who was arrested and charged because her Facebook profile picture resembled a suspect from a bar fight! This is more a case of police stupidity and laziness although it should be noted that instead of owning up to their mistake police LIED and said the women was released on a "peace bond".

This totally innocent young artist is now faced with having to come up with money to pay off her legal bill

Throwing the (Face) book at her:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/03/faulty-police-work-led-to-false-charges

 

[Peepers]

As the son of immigrants from a formerly communist regime I wouldn't call this a police state. By the same token, however, a lot police behaviour I've personally encountered and heard of makes me sick and mistrustful of all cops. In fact, I generally dislike police officers.

Yes, adma, you're probably right.

I think that the big difference between a communist police state and what we have here in Toronto is that in a communist police state - the police are a tool of the communist government. They act under the direction of their all-powerful political leaders.

In Toronto - the police are a power all their own. They are not answerable to their elected leaders, in fact , they thumb their noses at their political "masters". Civilian "oversight" is a complete joke with the SIU (Sweep It Under) and the Police Service Board under Bill Blair's lap-dog Alok "Milquetoast" Mukherjee . They have just about every politician and journalist in this city completely intimidated and afraid to act.

As a practical matter there probably isn't much difference between how police in a communist state and Toronto police state operate.

Toronto Police have no respect for the rule of law. They falsely accuse and charge people all the time and then lie to cover up their mistakes. They brutally assault and kill anyone who dares to resist. They trample on our civil liberties. A few days ago they arrested two people for video recording the arrests of the Occupy protesters who had been illegally arrested and brutalized. Apparently it is against the law now to photograph or video record a cop - of course when it comes to their cameras "the public doesn't have an expectation of privacy".

Technically we may not be living in a "police state" but as a practical matter - it sure looks like a police state!