adma
Superstar
And said resignation *and* Trump's inauguration went nicely hand-in-hand to that end
(Still, all things in hindsight, the parallels btw/Studio 54 Maggie T and Coachella Justin are pretty vivid)
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PM Mark Carney's Canada
- Thread starter Richard White
- Start date
(Still, all things in hindsight, the parallels btw/Studio 54 Maggie T and Coachella Justin are pretty vivid)
picard102
Senior Member
You're almost there. Now what happened to the global economy between pre and post covid?
Oh, so you do know what happend.
urbanclient
Active Member
I agree. Optics matter. Evidently, the plight of the masses doesn't, when your house is paid off and you live in a nice neighbourhood. It's not social conservatism driving young adults to be oddly more conservative at the polls than older generations. It's because the previous Liberals dropped the ball on the economy, especially for the working class. Harper arguably didn't improve things either, e.g. the housing file, but he didn't add fuel to the fire as net migration was stable ~200k throughout his term. Net migration skyrocketed to 330k in 2016 from 200k in 2015, immediately after Trudeau took power.
You're missing the point, the numbers weren't good before covid. Even if I play along and agree that everything after 2019 is rightfully scapegoated to covid.
From late 2021:
In their exasperation about stagnating living standards, Canadians have a point
"Prior the pandemic, the federal government, its agencies and even some in the media repeatedly claimed that Canada’s economy was “solid”. Clearly, this was not the case. As one of the most indebted countries in the world – with the combined debt of households, corporations and governments now standing at over 3½ times nominal GDP – one might have expected to see Canada’s economy rocketing along over the past decade and yielding gains in real incomes. Borrowing should have resulted in meaningful investments and gains in the country’s productive capacity. It did not."
In their exasperation about stagnating living standards, Canadians have a point — Business Council of British Columbia
Last week, the Trudeau government announced its revamped Cabinet containing 39 ministers. This vast leadership committee is not only larger than most choirs, it far exceeds the number of executive ministers in other countries such as the United States (15, plus the President and several other attend
www.bcbc.com
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that — Business Council of British Columbia
Ottawa’s economic growth strategy rests on four shaky pillars: accommodative monetary policy to support interest-sensitive sectors of the economy like credit, housing investment, and durable goods consumption; expansive fiscal policy guided by short-term "guardrails" and lacking a long
www.bcbc.com
This prediction was predicated mostly on data from before covid. Full report and excerpt from abstract:
"Without policy changes, maintaining current public service standards and benefits while keeping public debt ratios stable at current levels would increase fiscal pressure in the median OECD country by nearly 8 percentage points of GDP between 2021 and 2060, and much more in some countries. Policy scenarios show that reforms to labour market and retirement policies could help boost living standards and alleviate future fiscal pressures." This is related to the OW situation @CMQSD402F9011
October 2021: https://www.oecd.org/en/publication...e-need-for-structural-reform_a112307e-en.html
PL1
Senior Member
Did you forget about the cultural values snitch line at the end? Harper gutted science and research funding, and was poor on many files. Oh, and he heads the Org that supports right wing governments around the world.
Harper was trash; don't try to lionize him
urbanclient
Active Member
That was partly due to a high profile honour killing and other gender-related crimes. Paradox of tolerance... I don't see it as being poorly intentioned, even if unnecessary. The status quo is to contact police through regular channels.
He's only lionized by the dumpster fire that came after.
CMQSD402F9011
Active Member
Back in late 2014 when Harper was still the PM. The price of Oil crashed around the same time and has never recovered.I agree. Optics matter. Evidently, the plight of the masses doesn't, when your house is paid off and you live in a nice neighbourhood. It's not social conservatism driving young adults to be oddly more conservative at the polls than older generations. It's because the previous Liberals dropped the ball on the economy, especially for the working class. Harper arguably didn't improve things either, e.g. the housing file, but he didn't add fuel to the fire as net migration was stable ~200k throughout his term. Net migration skyrocketed to 330k in 2016 from 200k in 2015, immediately after Trudeau took power.
You're missing the point, the numbers weren't good before covid. Even if I play along and agree that everything after 2019 is rightfully scapegoated to covid.
From late 2021:
In their exasperation about stagnating living standards, Canadians have a point
"Prior the pandemic, the federal government, its agencies and even some in the media repeatedly claimed that Canada’s economy was “solid”. Clearly, this was not the case. As one of the most indebted countries in the world – with the combined debt of households, corporations and governments now standing at over 3½ times nominal GDP – one might have expected to see Canada’s economy rocketing along over the past decade and yielding gains in real incomes. Borrowing should have resulted in meaningful investments and gains in the country’s productive capacity. It did not."
In their exasperation about stagnating living standards, Canadians have a point — Business Council of British Columbia
Last week, the Trudeau government announced its revamped Cabinet containing 39 ministers. This vast leadership committee is not only larger than most choirs, it far exceeds the number of executive ministers in other countries such as the United States (15, plus the President and several other attend
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that — Business Council of British Columbia
Ottawa’s economic growth strategy rests on four shaky pillars: accommodative monetary policy to support interest-sensitive sectors of the economy like credit, housing investment, and durable goods consumption; expansive fiscal policy guided by short-term "guardrails" and lacking a long
This prediction was predicated mostly on data from before covid. Full report and excerpt from abstract:
"Without policy changes, maintaining current public service standards and benefits while keeping public debt ratios stable at current levels would increase fiscal pressure in the median OECD country by nearly 8 percentage points of GDP between 2021 and 2060, and much more in some countries. Policy scenarios show that reforms to labour market and retirement policies could help boost living standards and alleviate future fiscal pressures." This is related to the OW situation @CMQSD402F9011
October 2021: https://www.oecd.org/en/publication...e-need-for-structural-reform_a112307e-en.html
South of the border, how many young adults have gone to the Republican Party and voted Trump? Tons I guess and now they’re regretting ever since. Same people who voted for Doug Ford and now he’s been a disaster since 2018 when he announced massive cuts and has no intention on making things affordable.
urbanclient
Active Member
This is the 3rd or 4th time you've changed the topic with whataboutisms. I get your stance, but can I see the evidence that backs up the point? Or the steps to how you got to your conclusion?
I ostensibly agree with what you're saying, massive cuts, and no intention. However, I suspect that the mechanisms that you favour to reach affordability would not actually make things affordable. More to the point, what is the fiscally sustainable alternative? A question to think about when one ponders why people seem to vote against healthcare and education. For the record, I am very pro-public healthcare, education and transit.
In the Ford thread I spoke of Ontario falling behind other provinces on housing construction: https://www.rbc.com/en/economics/ca...da-isnt-in-a-housing-starts-slump-ontario-is/
This is a specious and absolutist argument:
https://economicdashboard.alberta.ca/dashboard/wcs-oil-price/
Never recovered? Also, last time I checked, oil & gas was less than 10% of Canadian GDP, using the most generous methodology. You and I both know that prices don't need to be near all-time highs for the industry to rake in healthy profts.
In essence, are you saying that the Trudeau admin's policies were all well intentioned and would've improved Canada, they were simply undone by oil price fluctuations and covid? By that exaggerated logic, OPEC+ and other oil exporters must've been wiped out after 2014-2016. Certainly in ruins after covid.
The OECD compared Canada to other developed countries. We were underperforming compared to peer countries, including Norway, where oil & gas is 20 to 25% of their GDP.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Had Harper won in 2015 and again in 2019 I wonder how he’d handled Covid. Would Harper acquiesce to industry’s demands that the immigration flood gates be opened.
picard102
Senior Member
Only if you ignore everything else happening in the world, and put blinders on to the social damage Harper did as PM and continued to do after losing.
urbanclient
Active Member
The greatest social damage is to prevent people from accumulating any wealth, as wide swaths of the population are priced out of home ownership. The lower rungs of Maslow's hierarchy are being forgotten here.
I exaggerate: You'd care less about a theocrat pushing religion into policy, when you can't put food on your table because housing costs are so high.
Housing stock-to-population ratio actually increased under Harper, only to decrease under Trudeau almost immediately.
Mostly agree on the second point.
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81-717
Active Member
The "industry" has no business making such demands in the first place smh.
From this morning:
(The PM discusses "Forward Guidance")