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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

lenaitch said:
All good points, but I still think the "quickly" part could be an issue. To load at, for example, Fredericton, you have first get the ground crews and all of their gear from Trenton to there and the tanks from Gagetown to the airport (not far I admit, but still). As for the armour itself, how many are deployment ready? How many crews are deployment ready? There is debate within the military if we should even retain armour so I would be wondering about their state of readiness. Best I could find, there are about 20 main battle tanks in Gagetown, in total.
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1) Moving a bunch of armoured vehicles and associated kit from Gagetown to the airport can literally be done in hours. We're talking an afternoon's work. Also, there are air and sea movements crews whose literally specialty is packing, loading and moving stuff and people. And in addition to the movements squadrons, these professional movers are at every base.

redirect

www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca

2) The military keeps a portion of every force on high readiness. And if tensions ramp up, readiness goes up and those next in line start moving up the cycle too. If there was no contingency plan (CONPLAN) for Russia ramping up in Ukraine, staff officers should be fired. I doubt this wasn't anticipated though.


3) While there were some debates about retaining armour during the Afghanistan era ("Great power competition is over! It's all about terrorism now!"), some of that has faded and that is why the army still has tanks after Afghanistan and is even considering up-armouring further. All that said, you go to war with the army you have. So discussions about procurement and force restructuring are moot at this point.
 
Towered said:
I


I would like to hope that Ukraine being a very vocally NATO-aspirant nation should count for something...
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Ukraine is aspiring to join NATO and the EU but has not yet joined either organization. I doubt either of them would risk WW3 to defend a country that is not yet part of their organizations.

Truthfully, I can see NATO defending Hungary, Poland and Slovakia over the rest if it came down to it. Those three countries are former soviet puppet states and provide easy access to Western Europe be it though Austria or Germany. If either one of those countries is invaded it will provide a beachhead for the invasion of Europe.
 
Richard White said:
Ukraine is aspiring to join NATO and the EU but has not yet joined either organization. I doubt either of them would risk WW3 to defend a country that is not yet part of their organizations.

Truthfully, I can see NATO defending Hungary, Poland and Slovakia over the rest if it came down to it. Those three countries are former soviet puppet states and provide easy access to Western Europe be it though Austria or Germany. If either one of those countries is invaded it will provide a beachhead for the invasion of Europe.
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I don't think NATO would enter a large scale war over a non-member either, but something tangible must be done to stand up to Russia's bullying. They have no right to treat a sovereign nation like Ukraine like a vassal state when it clearly wants no such role. Russia already has Belarus for that...
 
Admiral Beez said:
No way we’ll ever let Ukraine into NATO. The nation isn’t some shining beacon of democracy and legitimate rule.

en.wikipedia.org

Corruption in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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There's countries inside NATO that are as bad or worse. Corruption isn't reason enough to keep them out.

That said, the likely outcome will be EU without NATO membership. But this would substantially offend Putin too.
 
I sometimes wonder what’s up in the Russian mind. They look like us, but seem to always accept or even rejoice in strongman dictatorship. Will true democratic, legitimate, corrupt-free governance, bureaucracy and economics ever come to Russia?
 
Admiral Beez said:
I sometimes wonder what’s up in the Russian mind. They look like us, but seem to always accept or even rejoice in strongman dictatorship. Will true democratic, legitimate, corrupt-free governance, bureaucracy and economics ever come to Russia?
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Not a chance. It's a fetal alcohol fuelled failed state.
 
Towered said:
And Turkey is?
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In the age before ICBMs, Turkey was necessary for placement of PGM-19 Jupiter intermediate-range nuclear missiles. Otherwise they should have never been part of NATO, and forget about the EU.

Ukraine joining NATO has zero benefit and significant risk for Canada and the West. Once the Nord Stream 2 gas line is built even Russia will have no need for Ukraine, and the place is going to collapse politically and economically without Russian gas revenue.
 
lenaitch said:
I think Russia's actions wrt to Ukraine is driven more by want than need, or perhaps just because they can.
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Sure, but as Ukraine is not in alliance with NATO or Canada I am not willing to send my adult children to fight and die in a contest between two corrupt regimes. I do fully support reinforcing NATO's eastern border as any invasion of Ukraine could spill over into Romania, the Baltic Reps or another NATO member.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Sure, but as Ukraine is not in alliance with NATO or Canada I am not willing to send my adult children to fight and die in a contest between two corrupt regimes. I do fully support reinforcing NATO's eastern border as any invasion of Ukraine could spill over into Romania, the Baltic Reps or another NATO member.
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As a Hungarian Citizen, I am worried that I may be called for military service should things go sideways. Hungary shares a border with Ukraine and as I said before, the USSR occupied the country until 1991.
 
Richard White said:
As a Hungarian Citizen, I am worried that I may be called for military service should things go sideways. Hungary shares a border with Ukraine and as I said before, the USSR occupied the country until 1991.
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It'll be like Lebanon where everyone with a Canadian passport, including those with no connection whatsoever to Canada will be crying out to Trudeau for evacuation. And then when the storm passes they'll all return.

www.theglobeandmail.com

Lebanon evacuation cost $85-million: report

The Globe and Mail offers the most authoritative news in Canada, featuring national and international news
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
 
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