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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

jayme2016 said:
Well look at Italy they had the same police as Canada not restrictions and now they have a major outbreak.
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And then there is US, where they don't have the same policy and they are well on their way to an outbreak. Ditto Japan. What does that tell me? The utility of travel bans are overstated. Also, by the time you get around to enacting a ban because of known cases, it's already too late (e.g. Iran).

AoD
 
Well I think you can say travel bans don't stop infections

But I think there is evidence based on the fact that there aren't like a billion infections in China show that restrictions do work in slowing down the virus
 
Jasmine18 said:
Well I think you can say travel bans don't stop infections

But I think there is evidence based on the fact that there aren't like a billion infections in China show that restrictions do work in slowing down the virus
Click to expand...

What's practiced in China internally is very, very, very different from international travel prohibitions practiced by most of the western world. Also, it isn't just an internal travel ban in China (which btw wasn't really all that effective, given the presence of cases outside Hubei province), but mandatory isolation, social distancing, halting of public transit, etc - practices that break the chain of community spread.

And even then, there are questions of just how effective it is, and how durable those measures will be.

AoD
 
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I wonder what some people think which country has had the absolutely perfect and spot-on response. Are the countries not reporting any cases doing it right or simply not reporting? There's a difference between a considered response and playing catch-up once the cat is out of the bag. The virus was previously unknown and even now is not completely understood.

The goal is not just to have a plan, but to have a responsive plan.
"No plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke (paraphrased)

I'll put my money on cooperation between epidemiologists and professional health agencies in open societies. Although they are infuriating most of the time, a professional public service is a good thing in times like this.

www.thestar.com

Susan Delacourt: There’s nothing like the threat of a deadly pandemic to make us appreciate big government

Rugged individualism is all well and good when we’re faced with paying our taxes, but perhaps not entirely our approach when it comes to safeguarding our health and lives, Susan Delacourt writes.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
 
lenaitch said:
The goal is not just to have a plan, but to have a responsive plan.
"No plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke (paraphrased)

I'll put my money on cooperation between epidemiologists and professional health agencies in open societies. Although they are infuriating most of the time, a professional public service is a good thing in times like this.

www.thestar.com

Susan Delacourt: There’s nothing like the threat of a deadly pandemic to make us appreciate big government

Rugged individualism is all well and good when we’re faced with paying our taxes, but perhaps not entirely our approach when it comes to safeguarding our health and lives, Susan Delacourt writes.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
Click to expand...

Also, be wary of equating grand proclamations with essential and unsung dirty work on the ground (the contact tracers, the umpteen public health officials in constant touch with one another, etc).

There is a quote along similar lines by Eisenhower:
In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless but planning is indispensable.

AoD
 
I just been reading news from the UK and the government there seems to be planning for some rather drastic steps while here in Canada seems we were nowhere near that or there has been very limited public communication about next steps.
Like they're talking about maybe a third of offices will have to be closed or that all schools will have to be closed or that there are plans to ensure supermarkets are stocked.

I would say in Canada there needs to be way more communication by governments about what are the plans. Because I just have a feeling like we're just going to go from like zero to a hundred in like no time here in Canada and I dont think the public is ready for that and it will cause panic.
 
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Jasmine18 said:
I just been reading news from the UK and the government there seems to be planning for some rather drastic steps while here in Canada seems we were nowhere near that or there has been very limited public communication about next steps.
Like they're talking about maybe a third of offices will have to be closed or that all schools will have to be closed or that there are plans to ensure supermarkets are stocked.

I would say in Canada there needs to be way more communication by governments about what are the plans. Because I just have a feeling like we're just going to go from like zero to a hundred in like no time here in Canada and I dont think the public is ready for that and it will cause panic.
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Do you think other countries haven't gone "from zero to hundred"? I'm (EDIT *not*)exactly sure what you are expecting. Declaring a total travel ban, including the UK and US because they have cases? Ordering the economy to shut down? Ordering private businesses to increase stock which, in the case of food would conflict with a travel ban. Mass distribution of masks which probably don't exist?

There have been public press conferences, social media distributions and I assume all sorts of stuff on government and health websites.

I'm not necessarily defending the government, but wondering what the expectations are. There is robust reporting, tracking and medical response systems in place. Sure, it's a bit like whack-a-mole but our numbers are notably low with, I believe, no secondary infections post-identification. Does anybody realistically need someone to tell them not to travel to places like Italy, or Iran or probably anyplace else right now?
 
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No I am saying in other similar western nations...the communication from the government seem far more ominous then the ones in north america.

I think that will change when things get more serious here.

My point is its 2020 so people do not look at this issue in isolation to their country alone.
 
lenaitch said:
Do you think other countries haven't gone "from zero to hundred"? I'm exactly sure what you are expecting. Declaring a total travel ban, including the UK and US because they have cases? Ordering the economy to shut down? Ordering private businesses to increase stock which, in the case of food would conflict with a travel ban. Mass distribution of masks which probably don't exist?

There have been public press conferences, social media distributions and I assume all sorts of stuff on government and health websites.

I'm not necessarily defending the government, but wondering what the expectations are. There is robust reporting, tracking and medical response systems in place. Sure, it's a bit like whack-a-mole but our numbers are notably low with, I believe, no secondary infections post-identification. Does anybody realistically need someone to tell them not to travel to places like Italy, or Iran or probably anyplace else right now?
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I heard that there are people who were infected who came to Canada and went all over the city for 3 days before the results came back. Who knows how many people they may have infected?
 
Jasmine18 said:
No I am saying in other similar western nations...the communication from the government seem far more ominous then the ones in north america.

I think that will change when things get more serious here.

My point is its 2020 so people do not look at this issue in isolation to their country alone.
Click to expand...

The public officers of health have already communicated that while right now there is no community spread, the public should prepare for the possibility of that happening and ensure that they have the medications and other essentials. The government cannot compel you - and definitely should not resort to fear-mongering to do so.

Don't want ominous communication for the sake of it - ask yourself what communication is supposed to do.

AoD
 
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lenaitch said:
Do you think other countries haven't gone "from zero to hundred"? I'm exactly sure what you are expecting. Declaring a total travel ban, including the UK and US because they have cases? Ordering the economy to shut down? Ordering private businesses to increase stock which, in the case of food would conflict with a travel ban. Mass distribution of masks which probably don't exist?

There have been public press conferences, social media distributions and I assume all sorts of stuff on government and health websites.

I'm not necessarily defending the government, but wondering what the expectations are. There is robust reporting, tracking and medical response systems in place. Sure, it's a bit like whack-a-mole but our numbers are notably low with, I believe, no secondary infections post-identification. Does anybody realistically need someone to tell them not to travel to places like Italy, or Iran or probably anyplace else right now?
Click to expand...

Mass distribution of masks? The general Joe Blow can't even wear them (surgical - much less N95) properly for it to be effective. Giving a limited resource away to provide a false sense of security is just about some of the worst public policy decision one can make.

AoD
 
Masks are in short supply and high demand already. Free masks for everyone - what would happen to prices? (For N-95 masks it's already at 1 for $1.60)
 
NotAToy said:
Masks are in short supply and high demand already. Free masks for everyone - what would happen to prices? (For N-95 masks it's already at 1 for $1.60)
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N95 are super tricky to wear - wasting it would be borderline criminal at this point. Just saw on the street some genius wearing their surgical mask with their nose exposed. :rolleyes:

AoD
 
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