PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

[Northern Light]

It can be neatly summed up as: we don't border a third world country.

The difference in economic standard of living for many Mexicans is certainly a big part, and once a much larger part of the U.S. immigration situation.

However, as I noted, racial tension in the United States is not exclusively or even primarily about the Mexican expat community in much of that nation. There are other tensions at play.

Those too, in many respects center on access to economic opportunity, but that is an internal U.S. issue rather than an international one.

 

[SunriseChampion]

It can be neatly summed up as: we don't border a third world country.

Neither do the US...or, say, Germany. (Mexico is a member of the OECD, hardly a club of third world countries, for example)

 

[Northern Light]

Asylum claims in Canada reached highest level in decades in 2017

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ada-reached-highest-level-in-decades-in-2017/

Neither Haiti nor Nigeria are on the Liberal's list of countries with political persecution. Rather, many actually apply for US visas and then immediately seek asylum in Canada.

There's also a shortfall of immigration judges at the moment:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-immigration-judge-shortage-1.4150043

Reminder that a huge backlog has already existed, and this influx combined with a lack of resources has exacerbated the issue


https://www.thestar.com/news/immigr...s-scheduling-system-amid-surging-backlog.html


The Liberal's most visible response has rather been to send migrants to other provinces- but if the loophole continues to exist, people will continue to take advantage of it.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...st-tracked-to-ontario-starting-next-week.html

In so far as this problem is far more acute at the now well-known border crossing point in Quebec, I would suggest addressing that issue in-situ as a priority.

I'm no fan of border walls, even fences for that matter, but this location would seem to merit an exception.

Short of a big wall, we could buy up some U.S. property and reforest the area, blurring any way across; alternatively we need to install fences for a few km and/or formalize this crossing.

There is nothing wrong with being a nation in which people seek legitimate asylum, but we must be prophylactic in ensuring that we don't have a vast number of illegitimate asylum seekers.

We must also be careful not to encourage disorderly or unlawful applications, and to facilitate orderly crossing where appropriate.

I would never want a close-off or paranoid society, but neither do I wish to see unprepared for a changing world.

 

[jje1000]

Interesting to see Turkey as the third leading source country. I'm assuming those are nationals of those countries and so, in the case, of Turkey wouldn't be Syrian refugees coming from Turkey, for example.

I'm guessing it's because of what's been happening there since the failed coup attempt two years ago. I like Turks, let them in! (Not at all a commentary on any of the other countries on that or any other list....I just like Turkish culture and people)

Likely political dissidents + Kurds.

 

[SunriseChampion]

In so far as this problem is far more acute at the now well-known border crossing point in Quebec, I would suggest addressing that issue in-situ as a priority.

I'm no fan of border walls, even fences for that matter, but this location would seem to merit an exception.

Short of a big wall, we could buy up some U.S. property and reforest the area, blurring any way across; alternatively we need to install fences for a few km and/or formalize this crossing.

I don't think that would solve the problem. The border is long (thanks, Sherlock) and there could easily be found another area at which to cross. There has to be found a way to discourage people from making irregular crossings before they even get near the border. No idea what that might entail.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't think that would solve the problem. The border is long (thanks, Sherlock) and there could easily be found another area at which to cross. There has to be found a way to discourage people from making irregular crossings before they even get near the border. No idea what that might entail.

If there is a known crossing of illegals, police must be there to turn people back. You can't stop them all, but you can stop the common locations.
Same thing with public safety. You can't protect every pedestrians, but you protect concentrated spaced such as Maple Leaf square or pedestrian squares.

 

[SunriseChampion]

If there is a known crossing of illegals, police must be there to turn people back. You can't stop them all, but you can stop the common locations.
Same thing with public safety. You can't protect every pedestrians, but you protect concentrated spaced such as Maple Leaf square or pedestrian squares.

Yeah, but that's just treating the symptoms and not the cause. That doesn't really solve our problems. Obviously, treating the symptoms is important as well, but doesn't prevent any of this from happening.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yeah, but that's just treating the symptoms and not the cause. That doesn't really solve our problems. Obviously, treating the symptoms is important as well, but doesn't prevent any of this from happening.

Well, you can follow the Australian model of shipping them off to some isolated locale for processing - if it gets unpalatable enough and the word gets around, they will stop coming (and you can facilitate the repatriation process for those who arrived via cash or material incentives). Having said that, you do have to ask yourself how a first world country have trouble dealing with a less than 0.1% increase in population per annum via migrants.

AoD

 

[SunriseChampion]

Well, you can follow the Australian model of shipping them off to some isolated locale for processing - if it gets unpalatable enough and the word gets around, they will stop coming. Having said that, you do have to ask yourself how a first world country have trouble dealing with a less than .1% increase in population via migrants.

AoD

Yeah, I guess we could cut a deal with France and ship them all to St Pierre-et-Miquelon for processing. Once word gets out about the St Pierre gulags, the flow will stop like Cape Town's supply of water.

I don't know the answer to why a .1% increase in population would be such an issue....Germany and Sweden did alright with much, much, much more.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yeah, I guess we could cut a deal with France and ship them all to St Pierre-et-Miquelon for processing. Once word gets out about the St Pierre gulags, the flow will stop like Cape Town's supply of water.
I don't know the answer to why a .1% increase in population would be such an issue....Germany and Sweden did alright with much, much, much more.

You don't even need to do that - we don't have a lack of land (or honestly, even terminally declining rural towns). On the second point - the government can't provide everyone who arrived with a middle-class existence of course, but other countries have done far more with less. It is also a good test of what the end goals of the migrants are - purely economic ones will probably ditch for greener pastures (on the other hand, do you really want to screen individuals with the ambition and drive out from the system?)

There is of course a certain irony of the walled garden mentality, considering UEL and the Irish diaspora in Canadian history, no less (nevermind Quebec - it is totally hung up on the whole purity thing).

AoD

 

[jje1000]

Just in mind that these effects do start to trickle down as well:

City in need of 'urgent help' amid influx of refugee claimants in shelter system: Tory

Mayor John Tory says that the city has “reached the limit” of its ability to provide shelter and other social supports to new refugee claimants arriving in Toronto and is “urgent need” of assistance from the federal and provincial governments.

According to numbers released by the city on Thursday, the proportion of refugee claimants in Toronto’s shelter system has increased from 11.2 per cent in 2016 (459) to 37.6 per cent so far in 2018 (2,351).

https://www.cp24.com/news/city-in-n...ee-claimants-in-shelter-system-tory-1.3903156



And the ramifications of the huge deadlogs + changes already made to the system by the Conservatives- less evidence being used to determine the validity of migrants' claims. In the end, this will simply not stop, and rubberstamping approvals to get claimants out of the system will only draw more to the border.

Canada's acceptance rate of asylum seekers is the highest in 27 years — here's why
Experts suspect tighter timeline for hearing process could be behind the increase

The acceptance rate increased significantly in the past five years, to 70 per cent in the first nine months of 2017, up from 44 per cent in 2013.

The result was that, in most cases, a claim had to be heard within 60 days of being accepted by the IRB. Before that, cases wouldn't be heard for about 18 months, said Vancouver refugee lawyer Douglas Cannon.

Because lawyers had so much lead time, board members expected to see considerable evidence in order to approve a claim, he said.

But with the drastically shortened timelines, those expectations became unreasonable, he said, and board members had to make a call based on the evidence that could be gathered within two months.

Because refugee law requires board members to give the claimant the benefit of the doubt, acceptance rates went up, Cannon said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/asylum-seekers-overview-data-1.4503825

I don't think that would solve the problem. The border is long (thanks, Sherlock) and there could easily be found another area at which to cross. There has to be found a way to discourage people from making irregular crossings before they even get near the border. No idea what that might entail.

The solution is very simple- close the loophole in border enforcement and you eliminate the reason people travel to the border. A comment from reddit:

The doors are closed. These "economic migrants" came to USA on valid US visa (B1/B2/J,...). If, they show up at the offical CBSA border control, say, rainbow bridge, st-armand, etc.. they will get turned away by CBSA back to the US.

The problem is, there is a loophole in the law, once they cross at an illegal border crossing, their valid US visa are automatically voided, thus CBSA cannot turn them around back to the USA.

Do not close the doors, refugees have the right to enter (legally of course), close the loophole in the LAW.

 

[pman]

The Supreme Court Singh decision, based on a typically broad Charter interpretation, means that the moment anyone from any Third World country presents at or inside a Canadian border, and utters the magical incantation “I’m a refugee”, they get to stay with all the government benefits enjoyed by actual citizens while their claim drags at glacial speed through the hearing process. Given our cumbersome claims adjudication system, and quasi-judicial appeal, and re-appeal, and re-re-appeal process, the likelihood of expulsion is small. The only way the federal government could create a legislative toolkit allowing it to control the border would be to reclaim refugee policy and administration from the courts. They could use the notwithstanding clause to do that, but practically it’s impossible. The Charter, and the primacy of appointed judges over elected parliaments, are sacred to English Canadian elites, and the courts have dictated that we don’t have the right to control our borders.

Regarding the Australia comments earlier, they don’t have a Charter or a legislative court system, which allows their government to “decide who comes to [their] country and the manner in which they come.” And they do.

 

[Videodrome]

Dale Smith
@journo_dale

Ex-Bloc MPs are formally severing all Bloc ties, planning to start a new party to defend Quebec’s interests in Ottawa. #cdnpoli

https://twitter.com/journo_dale/status/991344452273762306

Seven former Bloc MP's will form their own party now.

EDIT:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-conservative-mp-gord-brown-dies-of-a-heart-attack/

A Conservative MP suddenly died of a heart attack.

 

[WislaHD]

Interesting to see Turkey as the third leading source country. I'm assuming those are nationals of those countries and so, in the case, of Turkey wouldn't be Syrian refugees coming from Turkey, for example.

I'm guessing it's because of what's been happening there since the failed coup attempt two years ago. I like Turks, let them in! (Not at all a commentary on any of the other countries on that or any other list....I just like Turkish culture and people)

That was my initial gut reaction too. Turkish asylum seekers sound like academics, professionals and liberal and secular minded persons who might be seeking asylum.

But on sober second thought, a lot of them are probably Gülenists and their families post-coup, who might be well educated but are far from liberal or secular. (They are more like, the illiberal, non-secular faction that Erdogen tolerated to defeat the Kemalists, and has since turned against because they are not loyal to him.)

 

[Videodrome]

Cormac Mac Sweeney‏Verified account@cmaconthehill 12m12 minutes ago
MP Erin Weir has been kicked out of the NDP caucus after an independent investigator found one claim of harassment and three claims of sexual harassment against him were “sustained by the evidence.” #cdnpoli

Not good.