Plus 15s In Toronto

[adma]

Having a look at Mark Osbaldeston's "Unbuilt Toronto" tonight got me thinking of Toronto's abortive attempts at a Plus 15 network--the book refers to the NPS/Sheraton Centre/Holiday Inn connection, as well as an old proposal to connect the Colonnade across Bloor and the ghosts of such a network at Harbour Square. But there are other examples he neglected to mention: my favourite being the podium behind the Hilton btw/150 York and 181 University--plus the upper-level vestiges at FCP and RBP, etc.

Why not a discussion thread on the ghost of a Plus 15 system for Toronto? Ought to be fun...

 

[khris]

I don't actually like above ground covered walkways above the streets. I think they look unattractive and take away from the street level.

 

[adma]

Well (and Osbaldeston says as much), that's part of what killed the Plus 15 concept in Toronto before it ever really got started.

But the bits and pieces of which remain or could have plugged into such a network remain fascinating to consider...

 

[smuncky]

interesting to note is that calgary has the world's biggest +15 system while we chose to stick to the underground path network instead. and since both were planned in the 1960s it's interesting to see how two canadian cities chose to do something totally different.

although i wonder why calgary chose to go above ground while we went underground.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

interesting to note is that calgary has the world's biggest +15 system while we chose to stick to the underground path network instead. and since both were planned in the 1960s it's interesting to see how two canadian cities chose to do something totally different.

although i wonder why calgary chose to go above ground while we went underground.

I'm guessing the lack of a street life in Calgary during the early stages of the system is a reason why there wasn't much opposition to putting in the +15 network. Above ground walkways have a much greater effect on the visual landscape of the city and Toronto's pedestrians didn't want anything of it.

On the other hand, Calgary and Edmonton's downtowns were essentially flattened in the 70s, creating a void of opposition, then developers were able to create these low-cost, weather protected connections between their buildings. Not to mention Calgary gave generous bonuses for creating Plus 15 connections in new developments. And finally, with the development of the CTrain in Calgary, the stations were above ground, which further reduced the need to create underground connections.

It's interesting how Calgary's system is predominantly above ground connections, while I find the Edmonton's Pedway network has an interesting mix of above-grade, at-grade, and below-grade connections (which is a result of the underground LRT stations).

 

[jaborandi]

Given the choice between tunnel, +15 or street level connecting the Eaton Centre and the Bay, I nearly always choose the +15.

 

[wyliepoon]

although i wonder why calgary chose to go above ground while we went underground.

Toronto has a subway, and they don't.

 

[valkoholic]

Toronto has a mix of the two systems, and I think more and more developers (who foot the bill) will push for +15's for cost reasons.

I think Calgary's system is too good, in a way. It is so fast and efficient that the streets seem very quiet.

 

[Edward]

Interesting. Never knew there had been plans to build an above ground network like that in Calgary.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The presence of a pedestrian bridge over Jarvis Street, linking St Lawrence Market South to the public parking garage adjacent to the condos at 109 Front Street, is used as a selling point for those interested in buying there.

 

[Hipster Duck]

+15s really divide a street.

In Ottawa, there is a +15 on Rideau street and on the west side is postcard Ottawa: neo-gothic spires, the canal and NAC, Chateau Laurier, etc. On the east side, Rideau is a scuzzy row of gangsta fast food outlets, and decaying storefronts.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Hamilton's attempt at reorganizing its downtown was partially based on the +15 concept. Lucky most was not constructed but the treed areas above Jackson Square are a great retreat in the core.

 

[Tuscani01]

I just got back from a road trip across the country, and pretty much every city west of Ontario had some form of a +15 system.

I can't say they had a negative effect on the experience in each city, but I can say that they are all treated as private space, and are closed outside of business hours. PATH on the otherhand is open 24/7 which means you can use it all day.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

PATH is definitely not open 24/7. Many parts of it shut down at 9pm, such as a very key link at the Thomson Building between the Sheraton Centre and the Bay. I always thought the rule was that it had to be open as long as the subway is open.

 

[Tuscani01]

PATH is definitely not open 24/7. Many parts of it shut down at 9pm, such as a very key link at the Thomson Building between the Sheraton Centre and the Bay. I always thought the rule was that it had to be open as long as the subway is open.

Thats the only area where I have run into a closure. I havn't had problems getting through the rest of PATH, whereas in Calgary the doors to pretty much every building were locked.