cplchanb
Senior Member
another one of the dreamworld proposals. it wont work here unless we have the infrastructure to back it up.
you think traffic will magically improve?
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Plans to fill in Allen Road
- Thread starter Scrub
- Start date
you think traffic will magically improve?
turini2
Active Member
It takes you as far as Eglinton Ave and no further. At least Black Creek Drive takes you to Weston Rd and Keele St.
Tbh Allen Road has no regional or strategic purpose and should be downgraded to a more local road. There are better ways to get downtown.
And yes - as has been experienced in many places across the world - Cheonggyecheon in Seoul, Embarcadero in San Francisco - traffic can and does 'evaporate'! Maybe would encourage people to get the subway downtown, too.
cplchanb
Senior Member
only if theres a plan to do something. to replace it properly right now there is neither.
robmausser
Senior Member
Honestly I think the Allen should be decked.
Unlike a raised highway structure, its not an eyesore, and decking is not all that expensive compared to other projects.
You also can't tear down the TTC portion, so there would still be a physical barrier there anyways.
Put a couple midrise and high rise developments near those underused stations on the decking and have them offset the cost, leave the rest as a park/bikeway.
Unlike a raised highway structure, its not an eyesore, and decking is not all that expensive compared to other projects.
You also can't tear down the TTC portion, so there would still be a physical barrier there anyways.
Put a couple midrise and high rise developments near those underused stations on the decking and have them offset the cost, leave the rest as a park/bikeway.
Voltz
Senior Member
This has been proposed several times, then loses traction after a while
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Shawn Micallef: Forget Rail Deck Park. If Mayor John Tory wants a big legacy project, he should build a park and housing on top of the Allen Expressway
Detailed plans already exist to build green space and affordable housing over top of the highway from Eglinton to Yorkdale mall.
www.thestar.com
Northern Light
Superstar
A couple of midrises will not create the economics to make the decking over work.
From a transporation point of view, The Allen isn't very functional, the problems it creates at both the Eglinton and Lawrence interchanges are consequential w/very little to offset that in terms of value; those also would not
be erased or mitigated by any decking exercise.
Eventually, the Allen needs to be removed south of Yorkdale Mall, it would essentially exist only as an off-ramp to the mall.
Rebuilding it as a 2-lane (one each way) urban road, and repurposing the surplus land, particularly at the interchanges, with hirises is what will soften the blow cost wise.
The tracks will almost certainly be decked over in the fullness of time, except possibly at stations themselves in order to preserve architecturally integrated skylights.
That said, this isn't happening anytime soon. The E.A. was never finished, and there are simply many more desirable spots in the City for now from a development/investment perspective.
Maybe in 15 years, maybe in 25. But not on the near-term horizon.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
They could also tunnel Allen Road south and continue to follow the Spadina Line to downtown.
Northern Light
Superstar
For all practical purposes, they could not; moreover they will not.
north-of-anything
Active Member
The plan for the I-375 is to replace the interstate with a six-lane boulevard with channelized right turn lanes. Doing that to Allen Road would be like making another Sheppard Avenue East.(or worse, Bovaird Drive West). Let's not take inspiration from Detroit.
As much as a white elephant Allen Road is, it's still much more widely used and practical than most highway removal proposals at present. I'm not sure we can reasonably approach filling in the Allen until addressing the associated 401 interchange. We would, at the very least, need to convert Dufferin to a full interchange, and maybe leave the part north of the 401 as is for a northern connection.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
My office is at Dufferin and Steeles. Allen Rd. is the best way to get there through the city from Cabbagetown. I’d like to keep it.
robmausser
Senior Member
I really dont think everything needs to have a net 0 ROI in politics. We pay taxes for a reason. Some highrises around the stations would help keep the costs down.
I really don't think repurposing the Allen to a regular road benefits anyone: it doesn't make the neighborhood more enjoyable like a park would, it doesn't offer a place for a bikeway, it will just make traffic worse, and there will still be a divide with the subway that has to be grade separated. The advantage of a highway conversion to a boulevard is typically to make the area more walkable, but with a subway line running down the middle, that's really not possible. Decking will remove the negative aspects of all of this and not divide the neighborhood, and provide Toronto with another linear park.
Northern Light
Superstar
I agree with this, but there is certainly no money in the existing budget for this; and were there agreement on a tax hike I can think of several proposals that would soak up the money first. Simply put, this will be awhile before we this happens regardless, but add at least 10 years on top of that wait if there isn't ancillary revenue to be had.
The preliminary work of the unfinished EA showed ample room for a bikeway and a linear park system in addition to development.
The subway would have to be decked over in any proposal. It would make no sense to leave it exposed. and there will still be a divide with the subway that has to be grade separated. Decking will remove the negative aspects of all of this and not divide the neighborhood, and provide Toronto with another linear park.
Edit to add: Here's the of the slides:
Here's a couple of aerial pics of The Allen:
It varies slightly in width, but over all the corridor, including the subway is about 80M wide at non-interchange streets.
A basic (2-lane road, plus cycle tracks and sidewalks) would occupy ~20M; that leaves 60M all of which can be a greenway between major streets/station areas. You then set aside 40M for development at the major streets,
preserving a 20M linear park (roughly 4M trail, and two 8M landscaped buffer zones w/lighting and seating) that take you to the wider spots in between where there's room for playgrounds and sports fields.
Based on a distance of ~2.5km from Ranee to Eglinton; and allowing for some additional cross-streets and such, I'd say there's room for about 10 hectares or 25 acres of new park.
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Lawrence as an interchange occupies much more space, its over 200M wide at Lawrence, and narrows to ~115M at Dell Park.
Lots of room to do multiple interesting things.
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robmausser
Senior Member
I just seriously question what the purpose of raising the road onto the decking rather than leaving as-is under the decking as a tunnel. It seems to me that if you would deck over it, would you not just deck over the whole current structure. That way you get a tunnelled express highway and a part unabated with cars and traffic.
Northern Light
Superstar
There are a few reasons:
1) The Allen doesn't achieve anything. Its a stubway, not an expressway.
2) Strata parkland precludes growing mature trees, you have to rip them out every 40 years to re-do the roof membrane on the deck.
3) Tunnels are expensive to maintain.
4) You don't eliminate all the harm the interchanges cause at Eglinton and Lawrence where they create traffic jams and an environment hostile to pedestrians and cyclists.
5) Developing Strata over the deck is also more expensive, driving up the cost of housing.
I don't see a compelling reason to keep the stubway.
Its removal won't come anytime soon. But one day.........
Jaye101
Active Member
While generally I support the removal of highways. I'm more in favour of reconfiguring the expressway at Eglinton. Yonge and Eglinton is a major business district and I think it's smart to maintain highway access. But I think we could do this while also improving the pedestrian experience - it would just take some expropriation.
Example: raising Eglinton at Allen Road by ~3m to allow off ramps to pass under Eglinton and into the middle lane where a traffic signal would be placed. Not only would pedestrian conflict points be reduced, but phased traffic signals could also improve traffic flows. Expropriated lands could then be regraded and developed with increased density.