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Planned Sprawl in the GTA

Well, it didn't take Stephen Del Duca, the rarely heard from Provincial Liberal Leader long to make a statement about a potential Greenbelt Expansion:

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That's a....uh.....brilliant response to expansion of the Greenbelt.

Why did they choose this clown as leader? Was there a good reason? I'm sure there's a reason, but I need a good one or it's just fluff, which I'm sure it is.
 
Whilst I will agree with you that people in general have gotten way too soft, it's a fact that drivers are absolutely incompetent as a demographic.

I'm a daily driver and I don't mind telling you that 80% (no exaggeration) of drivers around here should not have their licences without further training.

When I'm not driving, walking is my preferred mode of transport and it behooves one's sense of self-preservation around these degen drivers here to watch oneself.

The problem isn't cars, the problem is the licensing standards here.

I thought of that too, but didn't mention it. But I don't think it's the licensing standards so much as people being more aggressive, whether driving or not. It wasn't as big of a problem back in the day.
 
But I don't think it's the licensing standards so much as people being more aggressive, whether driving or not.
The licensing standards are definitely lacking. Drivers aren't confident. Drivers aren't aware of their surroundings. And etc.
It's true that a large part of it in big urban areas is the fact that people are very self-absorbed and that translates very poorly on the roadways.

I don't see why people should be more aggressive now than at times in the past. For example, violent crime rates are lower now than they were 30 or 40 years ago.


It wasn't as big of a problem back in the day.
I have no idea of how old you might be so can't even guess as to when your "back in the day" is.....besides, if you're anything like me then you have multiple "back in the day"s based on context of what's being discussed. Like my 90s "back in the day" of my university/early-to-mid-20s "back in the day". Very different times in both my life and in society at large. ;)
 
I have no idea of how old you might be so can't even guess as to when your "back in the day" is.....besides, if you're anything like me then you have multiple "back in the day"s based on context of what's being discussed. Like my 90s "back in the day" of my university/early-to-mid-20s "back in the day". Very different times in both my life and in society at large. ;)

80s and 90s. So not back in what would be considered "grandpa's day." At least not when allowing for the big changes in society that occurred in the 60s.
 
The licensing standards are definitely lacking. Drivers aren't confident. Drivers aren't aware of their surroundings. And etc.
It's true that a large part of it in big Iurban areas is the fact that people are very self-absorbed and that translates very poorly on the roadways.
[/QUOTE]

I couldn't find any historical data on d/l pass rates but, anecdotally, tend to agree (and they were never all that onerous to start with). It doesn't help when you see articles like this:



It's not just the road test - companies will haul their students out to these towns to practice on the known test routes. There is no legislated limit of G1 or G2 hours behind the wheel. Get your road test in a small town then unleash yourself onto the downtown or 401. I've seen the parade in both Orillia and Bancroft.

 
The pass rate is irrelevant because the standards are a joke, the testing is a joke, and the driving schools are a joke.

"Defensive" driving isn't confident driving, for starters.

A vehicle isn't a joke. It's a heavy piece of very powerful machinery. This isn't like a lawnmower.
I get that our vastly rural and suburban country almost requires that one drive and so maybe it's become a bit of a right and not a trained skill, as it should be.
 
There's no question that there are always trade-offs.

I would argue for a more efficient use of resources across the board; and a more balanced use as well.

Forestry looks terrible on the landscape when its a clear cut; but when done with sustainability principles isn't that bad; though I'd rather we left all old-growth alone at this point.

Mining that's open-pit of any kind is a scar on the landscape, and typically one that is never erased.

Mining underground can be done with minimal aesthetic harm; through there certainly are potential consequences to the environment, both in the act itself and onward through processing.

The answer, to my mind is a mix of actions across the economy/society. Its not a single action.

But to take it back to quarrying; I really do want to see less of it; I don't want the Escarpment to be nothing but pockmarks.

That would be adverse to my quality of life (I enjoy hiking it!), the environment and tourism.

I also think we're using the resource at a unsustainable rate.
Mining underground is far far more expensive than open pit though. You might do it for gold or other expensive commodities where you have to go extremely deep to reach the ore and going open pit would involve removing 1-2km worth of rock above the ore that is of no economic value and is merely in the way. There types of mines actually have a greater impact on the landscape too, since they still generate a lot of waste rock. For example high grade gold ore is like 0.0002% gold and 99.9998% other rock, so all that waste rock still has to be disposed of, sometimes it can be put back underground to fill in the stopes but a lot of the time it ends up in big waste rock piles that have to be capped and isolated from the environment (due to risk of acid mine drainage). These waste rock piles typically have a footprint that's comparable in size to a fairly large limestone quarry.

But for limestone that's only a few meters deep and very low value, underground mining would represent a massive increase in extraction costs. Southern Ontario limestone would probably cost multiples more. We'd probably just end up exporting the problem to other jurisdictions that do allow open pit mining of limestone and use additional fossil fuels to transport it here.

I'm also not sure what you'd do with the remaining underground limestone mine works. I guess they'd fill up with water? I'd expect you'd have a high risk of sinkholes forming in that case (if the stopes are relatively shallow).

I agree that you're not returning the landscape to its original state, you're removing a lot of rock and since you're not generating waste rock to use to fill in the void, you're left with... a void. On the plus side, the process of mining limestone doesn't generate any toxic by-products, and the mines aren't ridiculously deep like some of those 500m deep open pit mines, limestone quarries will probably be just 10-20m deep.

I suppose end of lifecycle quarries could be filled in with construction rubble (ex the stuff being dumped at the Leslie Spit).

Or they could be sealed from any aquifers and then used as a more conventional landfill (ie the ones that process household waste). Then once the landfill is filled, it could be capped and have vegetation planted on top or something, like with BraeBen Gold Course in Mississauga (which was formerly the Britannia landfill).

They could also be left unfilled, but nonetheless still naturalized one way or another. Kerncliff Park in Burlington is a former quarry (albeit a significantly smaller one than the main ones operating today):
This pond at Brickyards Park in Mississauga is what used to be the Cooksville Quarry (shale, which was used to make bricks I assume).

Kelso Quarry Park in Milton would be an example of a restoration effort at a quarry that's getting closer in size to the currently operating mega quarries. I will say though that these restoration efforts seem rather expensive so maybe the quarry operators should be asked to pitch in more in exchange for the permits?


I believe most of the lumber we use is not from old growth forests anymore (at least in Ontario). They're generally clear cuts a few hundreds of meters across, and then they get replanted and allowed to naturalize for few decades before I assume they get harvested again.
 
I think we're wandering a bit far afield from the subject at hand. (sprawl)

That said, I'll drop this in here for the amusement of others; but ask that if we want to drill down on the subject of driving instruction/quality we make a separate thread for that.

 
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@SunriseChampion yeah when they teach you crap like the 2 second rule (accidents occur in hundredths of a second), you know the licensing's a joke.

I don't even know what that is. I eat food off the floor at home for well beyond any minutes even, never mind seconds.

Wait, are you talking about driving? I purposely didn't pay attention in driving school because I had already established a superior style of driving when I attended only for the insurance premium discounts which didn't really counter my speeding ticket insurance premium increases in those days.

Never mind, can't drive fast enough to get beyond the sprawl from my current location anyway. Not least because of all the pylons in the way. ;)

See, @Northern Light one must just tie the tangent back into the thread topic. Smoooooth. Nice link.
 
I don't even know what that is. I eat food off the floor at home for well beyond any minutes even, never mind seconds.

Wait, are you talking about driving? I purposely didn't pay attention in driving school because I had already established a superior style of driving when I attended only for the insurance premium discounts which didn't really counter my speeding ticket insurance premium increases in those days.

Never mind, can't drive fast enough to get beyond the sprawl from my current location anyway. Not least because of all the pylons in the way. ;)

See, @Northern Light one must just tie the tangent back into the thread topic. Smoooooth. Nice link.
I'm pretty sure he means headway from the vehicle in front, but I like your interpretation better. Around here you have to be faster than the dogs, and they have a better starting position.
 
I'm pretty sure he means headway from the vehicle in front, but I like your interpretation better. Around here you have to be faster than the dogs, and they have a better starting position.

See, I eat dogs so around here that wouldn't necessarily fly as easily as yon dogs think it goes. :D

Ok, now we're legit off topic and I don't even know how to tie this back like I so deftly did just two posts up. Somebody else has to.....I'm looking at you @lenaitch. :p
 
See, I eat dogs so around here that wouldn't necessarily fly as easily as yon dogs think it goes. :D

Ok, now we're legit off topic and I don't even know how to tie this back like I so deftly did just two posts up. Somebody else has to.....I'm looking at you @lenaitch. :p
Pass. GTA sprawl something, something; developers want to pave it over something, something.

I shovelled and blew heavy, wet snow today - I'm too whacked.
 
Pass. GTA sprawl something, something; developers want to pave it over something, something.
That works! :D

I shovelled and blew heavy, wet snow today - I'm too whacked.

'Shovelled' I understand, but "blew wet snow".......you're not supposed to let your cocaine get wet. :p






Anyway......Have any of you been up to Seaton in Pickering?
 
Article from The Star detailing yet another suspect use of an MZO and a strange decision at Markham Council in respect of a redevelopment application for farmland at the Markham/Stouffville border.

The land isn't even serviced yet!

 

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