nfitz
Superstar
Chicago is quite similar. But so is the airport count.
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Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)
- Thread starter wyliepoon
- Start date
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Or you could use the same plane for two flights like they do with the ones that fly from Toronto to Sydney via Vancouver. The plane lands in the domestic terminal in Vancouver and the Sydney bound passengers stay in the gate area well the plane is serviced for the Sydney bound flight, upon return to Canada it means a long walk to customs and a long walk back to the gate
kEiThZ
Superstar
They cut frequencies to Thunder Bay in half. From 6 to 3, while adding seats. They went from six Q400s (468 total seats) to two Rouge A321s and one Jazz CRJ-900 (476 total seats). If they swap the CRJ for another A321, that would add 124 seats.
There's really no great shortage of "local travel choices".
This assertion is based on the false assumption that a reduction in frequencies means a reduction in the number of seats offered. As Thunder Bay shows above, this doesn't have to be the case. And prices are largely a function of the number of seats offered compared to demand.
MarkBrooks
Active Member
It’s a golden age for air Canada, with domination over Toronto Pearson, and assuming the Air Transat deal goes through, they can choke competition over a 1/3 of Canadians travelers.
With the new players held at bay by the lack of slots and pressure on the ticket prices, only the rich can fly. Everyone else gets to drive for hours to buffalo or Hamilton .
If by some miracle this billion dollar monopoly can talk the feds into sitting on Pickering even longer, it is time to buy air Canada stock. It’s going to be a rocket ship into orbit for investors!
With the new players held at bay by the lack of slots and pressure on the ticket prices, only the rich can fly. Everyone else gets to drive for hours to buffalo or Hamilton .
If by some miracle this billion dollar monopoly can talk the feds into sitting on Pickering even longer, it is time to buy air Canada stock. It’s going to be a rocket ship into orbit for investors!
nfitz
Superstar
With excess passenger capacity at Hamilton, that makes no sense.
There's no need for passenger capacity in Pickering at this time.
jje1000
Senior Member
Pickering Space Port? Now that's an idea.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Equating total marketshare with traffic at Pearson is deceptive.
Raise ticket prices that much and their planes will go empty and will incentivize foreign carriers to setup in Hamilton.
Also, lack of slots doesn't mean a new airport is necessary. Can always mandate a cut of AC's slots to increase competition.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'd love to see data on the average number of passengers per departure at Pearson and compare to other large hubs.
I suspect Pearson flies smaller aircraft on average than a lot of peers.
I suspect Pearson flies smaller aircraft on average than a lot of peers.
rbt
Senior Member
Perhaps I'm missing something, but wouldn't you be able to (roughly) achieve that by taking the reported passenger count and dividing by movements?
It's not perfect as you pickup freight movements which have zero passengers but I expect it's close enough.
Atlanta: 122
Beijing: 170
O'Hare: 96
Denver: 112
London: 168
Amsterdam: 138
Shanghai: 148
Paris: 149
Frankfurt: 146
Pearson: 108
List of busiest airports by passenger traffic - Wikipedia
List of busiest airports by aircraft movements - Wikipedia
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micheal_can
Senior Member
Lets fast forward about 20 years. Montreal finally has an MLB game, the Leafs still haven't won a cup, but, the new Pickering International Airport is open and has lots of flights to and from it.
From our small cities, like Thunder Bay, Timmins, Sudbury,, London ON, etc, are we still flying to Pearson, or now Pickering, or both? Is Porter still operating out of the Island airport? How do these 3 airports operate? How do the major Canadian carriers operate in the GTA?
From our small cities, like Thunder Bay, Timmins, Sudbury,, London ON, etc, are we still flying to Pearson, or now Pickering, or both? Is Porter still operating out of the Island airport? How do these 3 airports operate? How do the major Canadian carriers operate in the GTA?
MarkBrooks
Active Member
Some good questions. Porter hits the wall 2024 at City, by 2035 it has seen a decade of no movement growth. It is now a specialty airport for those willing to pay the price to fly into/ out of downtown.
Pearson has kicked out anything less that 100 seats, and with the exception of a few grandfathered in players. It’s a international Hub with connectivity to only a few major Canadian cities.
Everything else is flying into Pickering due to its location and access to services and the downtown core , as you would expect of a regional reliever airport. Hamilton and Waterloo are servicing their own local passenger catchment areas.
Of special note for Pickering will be the lack of congestion and ability to handle the new 50 seat regional electric ( or electric hybrid ) jets. It should created a boom in cheap high frequency connectivity with smaller Canadian communities such as thunderbay, Timmons, Sudbury,
One look at the trend at at passengers per aircraft and growth at Pearson over the last 20 years tells you where the numbers are going.
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
There are multiple ways to organize operations in a multiple airport city. Separate by Domestic/International, Short Haul/Long Haul, Airline alliances, Full feature/Low cost, etc, etc, etc.
There's really no way to predict how things will be done in Toronto. However given Air Canada's dominance at Pearson it may be separated by alliances. Star Alliance at Pearson and One World or Sky Team at Pickering.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The way it is trending right now is full service at Pearson, a lot of short haul flights at Billy Bishop, and budget at Hamilton. Pickering nowhere to be seen.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I love these types of graphs. They make you think things are going to skyrocket, when in reality, the growth prior is most likely going to continue.
With what you are saying about porter, it sounds like they will pull operations from the island. That means that airport will close, or become a general aviation airport.
MarkBrooks
Active Member
The opposite. Porter has 85% of the slots at Billy Bishop and they love it! But Air Canada’s constant opposition and political pressure means that its a stretch to put jets into billy.
Here is AirCanadas statement on the jets at the island and yes Porter is still seriously pissed with the federal Liberals support of AirCanada.
Air Canada Responds to Developments at the Toronto Port Authority: No Support for Jets at Billy Bishop
On March 31, at a public consultation for the Master Plan for the Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport by the Toronto Port Authority (also known as Ports Toronto), the following became clear: The...
aircanada.mediaroom.com
The funny part is that the press thinks it was the NoJets TO “citizens” group that did the convincing.
So Porter maxes out the island with turbo props providing downtown service but runs its CSeries jets to longer routes from Pickering, makes perfect sense. Billy remains a boutique airport, Pickering becomes the main domestic, everything to everyone player. Pearson maxes out Heathrow style.