Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

[kEiThZ]

The price per passenger for HSR would be exuberantly expensive when compared to HFR and conventional means of transportation (airfare, bus), which means it would be a highly subsidized route if ever built.

More expensive than the bus? More expensive than airfare? Debatable since Canada has exorbitant airfares. Some of the highest in the world actually. Carbon tax only going to make that difference higher.

Also the bolded is not necessarily true, especially at the necessary higher price points required to make some sort of business case for the line.

It's based on price. But if the price was just a bit less than air travel, usage would be quite high. There's the advantage of centre to centre travel. Wealso have worse weather than a lot of the world. And higher gas taxes than the US.

In reality, we probably need something of a hybrid approach:

1) Mostly double track. Fully electrified. No substantial grade separation. And some straightening. Between Toronto and Ottawa. Goal should be to get that segment down to 2:45. 3 hrs maximum.

2) Ottawa-Montreal built to high speed rail standards. Fully grade separated, twin tracked and electrified. Get the trip down to 1:15 or even an hour. This makes Ottawa-Montreal commutable. And makes Toronto-Montreal a 4 hr trip.

Something like the above would take HFR from $4B to $6-7B. But it would be quite defensible in my opinion because it would vastly boost Ottawa-Montreal traffic (especially for travel through Dorval) and would take substantial market share from air travel on the Toronto-Ottawa sector. It would also be competitive enough with driving and buses on Toronto-Montreal to offer real value. The planned 4:45 trip with HFR is going to have a small market.

 

[micheal_can]

More expensive than the bus? More expensive than airfare? Debatable since Canada has exorbitant airfares. Some of the highest in the world actually. Carbon tax only going to make that difference higher.



It's based on price. But if the price was just a bit less than air travel, usage would be quite high. There's the advantage of centre to centre travel. Wealso have worse weather than a lot of the world. And higher gas taxes than the US.

In reality, we probably need something of a hybrid approach:

1) Mostly double track. Fully electrified. No substantial grade separation. And some straightening. Between Toronto and Ottawa. Goal should be to get that segment down to 2:45. 3 hrs maximum.

2) Ottawa-Montreal built to high speed rail standards. Fully grade separated, twin tracked and electrified. Get the trip down to 1:15 or even an hour. This makes Ottawa-Montreal commutable. And makes Toronto-Montreal a 4 hr trip.

Something like the above would take HFR from $4B to $6-7B. But it would be quite defensible in my opinion because it would vastly boost Ottawa-Montreal traffic (especially for travel through Dorval) and would take substantial market share from air travel on the Toronto-Ottawa sector. It would also be competitive enough with driving and buses on Toronto-Montreal to offer real value. The planned 4:45 trip with HFR is going to have a small market.

The other thing @MarkBrooks likes to tout is the green of flying. When electrification of the line between Toronto - Montreal is completed, it will add one more nail in to the coffin.

 

[christiesplits]

CBC Hamilton: Hamilton International Airport operating at Christmas-peak levels of cargo throughout pandemic

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/john-c-munro-hamilton-international-airport-cargo-passengers-1.5764863

I didn't know Hamilton was the fourth busiest cargo airport in the country.

The article notes that Amazon is building a new fulfillment centre adjacent to the airport, opening in 2021.

 

[MarkBrooks]

CBC Hamilton: Hamilton International Airport operating at Christmas-peak levels of cargo throughout pandemic

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/john-c-munro-hamilton-international-airport-cargo-passengers-1.5764863

I didn't know Hamilton was the fourth busiest cargo airport in the country.

The article notes that Amazon is building a new fulfillment centre adjacent to the airport, opening in 2021.

Yup Hamilton is an awesome airport and their future business plans are to expand aircargo as much as possible. Notable, along with Waterloo, they have not Taken up the federal ask to expand on the passenger side as outlined as a possibility in the KPMG ASA report.

Most folks are not aware than 1/3 of global trade by value happens by Air According to IATA, yet produces only 3% of global emissions. Aviation is the grease that lets the global economy wheels turn, to the benefit of all of us. This is also the reason why It has been singled out by anti globalization activists over the years.

Air Cargo Matters

Air cargo transports over US$6.4 trillion worth of goods, 35% of world trade by value. IATA wants to raise awarenes on how air cargo contributes to the global economic development and our modern way of life.

www.iata.org

Until the pandemic much of that cargo arrived in the belly of passenger jets. Pure air cargo is seeing a resurgence even in the middle of a global recession and pandemic.

 

[micheal_can]

Yup Hamilton is an awesome airport and their future business plans are to expand aircargo as much as possible. Notable, along with Waterloo, they have not Taken up the federal ask to expand on the passenger side as outlined as a possibility in the KPMG ASA report.

Most folks are not aware than 1/3 of global trade by value happens by Air According to IATA, yet produces only 3% of global emissions. Aviation is the grease that lets the global economy wheels turn, to the benefit of all of us. This is also the reason why It has been singled out by anti globalization activists over the years.

Air Cargo Matters

Air cargo transports over US$6.4 trillion worth of goods, 35% of world trade by value. IATA wants to raise awarenes on how air cargo contributes to the global economic development and our modern way of life.

www.iata.org

Until the pandemic much of that cargo arrived in the belly of passenger jets. Pure air cargo is seeing a resurgence even in the middle of a global recession and pandemic.

Maybe the Pickering people should learn how to not ask the feds for something. Hamilton is doing well with that.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Howdy all,
busy as a mad hatter flying everyday. But haven’t forgotten about you lost souls.
just A reminder, that every day I fly out of Toronto, everywhere I look new development is underway. But I would like to draw your attention to one specific spot 10nm to the East.

For some it appears to be just another construction site. The reality is that it is a new water reservoir. Civic infrastructure like this (water, sewers, roads, bridges and power lines) is what transforms an empty field into commercial or residential land. In this case, it is just the latest piece supporting the transformation of the Pickering lands into an economic engine including a new airport.

Find out how this latest piece fits into the grand scheme and how it helps build the momentum behind the economic development of the Pickering lands and the future hub of aviation In eastern Toronto, Pickering airport:

https://pickeringairport.org/they-have-crossed-the-line/

tonight I am celebrating Biden’s win, hopefully, however far left you may be, you too recognize the importance to Canada. If so a tip of the beer to you!

 

[Coolstar]

Meanwhile, a new petition has started to stop the Pickering airport project. https://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/129970

 

[MarkBrooks]

Meanwhile, a new petition has started to stop the Pickering airport project. https://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/129970

yes, by an MP that took thousands in donations from housing developers. That was in 2015, she has yet to file her 2019 campaign expenses. Houses or an airport surrounded by a economic zone and a green space buffer. Choose one, Fully serviced land is a hot commodity!

Read all about the petition of misinformation here:

Is an MP authorized E-Petition promoting Misinformation to reward supporters?

Written by Mark Brooks The hubris of a new E-petition authorized by Member of Parliament Jennifer O’Connell is raising eyebrows on both sides of the Canadian House of Commons. The reason? &nb…

pickeringairport.org

 

[micheal_can]

yes, by an MP that took thousands in donations from housing developers. That was in 2015, she has yet to file her 2019 campaign expenses. Houses or an airport surrounded by a economic zone and a green space buffer. Choose one, Fully serviced land is a hot commodity!

Read all about the petition of misinformation here:

Is an MP authorized E-Petition promoting Misinformation to reward supporters?

Written by Mark Brooks The hubris of a new E-petition authorized by Member of Parliament Jennifer O’Connell is raising eyebrows on both sides of the Canadian House of Commons. The reason? &nb…

pickeringairport.org

As we have learned from our southern friends, truth will conquer all. Try citing websites you are not part of. Maybe then some of us might come on side.

 

[ARG1]

As we have learned from our southern friends, truth will conquer all. Try citing websites you are not part of. Maybe then some of us might come on side.

We learned that? All I learned is that no American outlet is trustworthy when reporting anything or giving any opeds at all. and almost all have the goal of creating divisions in society rather than factual reporting.

 

[micheal_can]

We learned that? All I learned is that no American outlet is trustworthy when reporting anything or giving any opeds at all. and almost all have the goal of creating divisions in society rather than factual reporting.

Are you one of those right wing nut jobs I keep hearing who doesn't trust facts? Mark Books must be your friend.

 

[Irishmonk]

Are you one of those right wing nut jobs I keep hearing who doesn't trust facts? Mark Books must be your friend.

I feel like this is going to morph into a QAnon thread before long.

 

[micheal_can]

I feel like this is going to morph into a QAnon thread before long.

Eventually, they all do. Way to many tin foil hat wearers don't realize that tin foil amplifies the signals. That I why we put them on rabbit ears.

But, seriously, I would like to see multiple sources that are well known respected outlets that support anything on his page.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Really straight forward guys and all above board , public knownledge, so please stop the conspiracy thoery nonsense. That BS has no place on this thread.

In Canada All political donations are public. Corporations can not donate directly to a candidate, although they can donate to lobby groups such as anti airport group Land Over landings,

Here is the national post data base on all recent political donations. Your can search it 7 ways to Sunday, by candidate, by donor, by date etc.

https://special.nationalpost.com/follow-the-money/database

Here is a screen shot of top donors to a well known anti airport MP. Then Take those names and do a simple google search. Picov, TACC, Marshall, are all great local Housing development companies with plans and visions on how they can help our city to develop. They are upstanding companies run by first class members of our society . They are welcome to support politicians of their choice. That is how democracy works. also, the airport is hardly the only issue.

Every Canadian citizens should know how this works. We are not America, our system is public and it works.

 

[micheal_can]

No conspiracy theories out of me. Just the theory that your website alone is not enough evidence for the need of something that has not been built, but been planned for over 50 years.