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Ottawa Transit Developments

smallspy said:
A lot of us have been asking the same things.

It took 2 days for them to move the car out of the way.

It was more than 3 weeks before they had completed repairing/replacing the track components.

It will be almost 2 months before full service resumes (and that's only if they manage to get their ducks in a row).

There appear to be some very, very serious organizational challenges within the structure that operates the Ottawa LRT. That they didn't have the equipment necessary to deal with the August derailment seems particularly galling to me, especially in light of other derailments that they had previous to it. It appears that everything is reactive, rather than proactive. If I didn't know any better, I'd assume that the whole thing was set up to fail.

Dan
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What's so hard about finding an HI-rail crane that can operate on standard gauge?
 
Bordercollie said:
What's so hard about finding an HI-rail crane that can operate on standard gauge?
Click to expand...
That's the question that should be asked of OC Transpo right now.

Of course, a crane is just one small part of the equation. There are a lot of other pieces of equipment, large and small, necessary for rerailing equipment or transporting damaged equipment in the event things go really pear-shaped. There also needs to the the know-how in how to use it. It may look pretty sitting in a corner of the yard, but if no one knows how to use it it's just a pretty modern art installation - and not of any actual use.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Why is the TSB getting involved at all? The Confederation Line is not a federally regulated railway. I realize that they wanted the additional oversight, but there's no reason why they couldn't do what the TTC or STM or Translink would have done in that situation - send their own experts and staff, take lots of photos and measurements, and get the equipment moved out of the way as soon as possible to start the process of resuming service.
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Transport Canada delegated regulation to the city, but in the TSB's eyes the line is still under federal jurisdiction. TC and the TSB are separate entities, and the city doesn't have any special agreements with the TSB.

smallspy said:
Which they should have had in their possession already but didn't. Despite having at least 2 derailments previously. And despite having two cities only a several hours away whom they could have used for ideas and help.
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Bordercollie said:
What's so hard about finding an HI-rail crane that can operate on standard gauge?
Click to expand...
I feel like these are still missing the point.

They can re-rail trains. Clearly they had already done it several times. But re-railing a train that is missing a wheel (which was the whole cause of the derailment to begin with) isn't as trivial, hence the need for that "specialized" dolly, which I'm still not sure is standard railway equipment.
 
OCCheetos said:
Transport Canada delegated regulation to the city, but in the TSB's eyes the line is still under federal jurisdiction. TC and the TSB are separate entities, and the city doesn't have any special agreements with the TSB.



I feel like these are still missing the point.

They can re-rail trains. Clearly they had already done it several times. But re-railing a train that is missing a wheel (which was the whole cause of the derailment to begin with) isn't as trivial, hence the need for that "specialized" dolly, which I'm still not sure is standard railway equipment.
Click to expand...
15 seconds using google found this

Auxiliary car DOLLY helps with blocked rail wheels

For rail vehicles with blocked or no longer rollable rail wheels or wheelsets, the auxiliary car of the DOLLY series helps.
www.zagro-group.com www.zagro-group.com
 
drum118 said:
15 seconds using google found this

Auxiliary car DOLLY helps with blocked rail wheels

For rail vehicles with blocked or no longer rollable rail wheels or wheelsets, the auxiliary car of the DOLLY series helps.
www.zagro-group.com www.zagro-group.com
Click to expand...
I think he means they didnt foresee this type of incident to occur and did not have a plan in place to deal with it.

Think about it, the train derailed at 1pm. How long would it take to asses the situation, come up with a plan, determine what is needed, and if it turns out that a dolly is needed.....how long would it take for you to come up with a purchase order, seal the deal, and then order one.

Then they would need to manufacture it, and ship it from Germany or where ever.

That might take 6 months.

Now if they had a plan and had a equiptment to deal with it then it could be resolved sooner, but clearly that was not the case.
 
Bordercollie said:
I think he means they didnt foresee this type of incident to occur and did not have a plan in place to deal with it.

Think about it, the train derailed at 1pm. How long would it take to asses the situation, come up with a plan, determine what is needed, and if it turns out that a dolly is needed.....how long would it take for you to come up with a purchase order, seal the deal, and then order one.

Then they would need to manufacture it, and ship it from Germany or where ever.

That might take 6 months.

Now if they had a plan and had a equiptment to deal with it then it could be resolved sooner, but clearly that was not the case.
Click to expand...
Talk to TTC who has 100 years of dealing with derail streetcars from the old days to the Flexity Outlook. It taken them close to 24 hrs to get an car back on the rails including the new ones.

You need to plan for the worst case and have the equipment for it than run around with your head in the sand when it happens.

This is a case of poor planning and management, let alone inspection all around.
 
drum118 said:
Talk to TTC who has 100 years of dealing with derail streetcars from the old days to the Flexity Outlook. It taken them close to 24 hrs to get an car back on the rails including the new ones.

You need to plan for the worst case and have the equipment for it than run around with your head in the sand when it happens.

This is a case of poor planning and management, let alone inspection all around.
Click to expand...
Not only that but I bet you those guys from Toronto are pros and have practiced dry runs both in a classroom and in the yard.

Sounds to me like Ottawa should borrow some TTC staff the next time this happens.

I know of 1? Subway derailment when the T1 clipped a switch at St George. Have there been others?

But considering the number of trains they run per day I would say that they have a pretty good track record.
 
OCCheetos said:
Transport Canada delegated regulation to the city, but in the TSB's eyes the line is still under federal jurisdiction. TC and the TSB are separate entities, and the city doesn't have any special agreements with the TSB.
Click to expand...
You know that the TSB investigates TC-regulated industries, right?

Which is why they don't get involved in Montréal's, Toronto's, Calgary's, Edmonton's and Vancouver's respective rail-based transit systems.

OCCheetos said:
I feel like these are still missing the point.

They can re-rail trains. Clearly they had already done it several times. But re-railing a train that is missing a wheel (which was the whole cause of the derailment to begin with) isn't as trivial, hence the need for that "specialized" dolly, which I'm still not sure is standard railway equipment.
Click to expand...
During the August incident, they had to wait almost a week to get a skate - a device designed to lift one or more axles off of the rail and allow transport of a damaged vehicle back to the garage when it is not capable of moving on its own wheels.

They should have had one already. This for all intents and purposes mandatory equipment for any rail-based transit system that runs in a tunnel or with limited clearances. The TTC has at least 2, for instance. And they will get another to deal with the Eglinton Crosstown.

drum118 said:
Talk to TTC who has 100 years of dealing with derail streetcars from the old days to the Flexity Outlook. It taken them close to 24 hrs to get an car back on the rails including the new ones.
Click to expand...
In most cases, it only takes them a couple of hours to do it.

Why?

Because they've practiced the procedures before they were ever needed. They have purchased the equipment ahead of time. They have trained their staff on how to deal with it.

Here's an example - in February 2008, the TTC had a major derailment at Kennedy Station late one Friday evening. It was substantial enough that a truck was ripped out from beneath a railcar, and a pair of switches had to be replaced.

The line was back open for service on the Monday.

This is the kind of thing that Ottawa seems to be lacking. It's not just the foresight necessary to predict and prepare for the emergencies, but also the urgency required to resolve them and get the system back up and functioning.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
You know that the TSB investigates TC-regulated industries, right?

Which is why they don't get involved in Montréal's, Toronto's, Calgary's, Edmonton's and Vancouver's respective rail-based transit systems.
Click to expand...
They investigate occurrences on railways that are under the "legislative authority of parliament", which the Confederation Line is, despite the delegation of regulation. None of those other railways are under the "legislative authority of parliament".

Aside: Interestingly, the TSB never investigated the derailment that occurred on the Trillium Line back in 2014.
smallspy said:
They should have had one already. This for all intents and purposes mandatory equipment for any rail-based transit system that runs in a tunnel or with limited clearances. The TTC has at least 2, for instance. And they will get another to deal with the Eglinton Crosstown.
Click to expand...
That's good to know.
 
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