Orangeville-Brampton Railway (OBRY)

[Northern Light]

They own the property. It is the responsibility of the Town of Orangeville to provide for their citizens. Therefore, it would be improper for the town to make any deal on the right of way where they don't recover their full costs. This is why we shouldn't stand in the way of the sale and redevelopment of the right of way. It belongs to the town and they have the final say. It will provide a windfall for them at a time when it is much needed.

You're repetitive on this point in a way that suggests you have a very specific axe to grind; a vested interest or both.

Its fine to have a preference or a point of view that is different from the majority in this thread, which you clearly do.

Its not ok to drone on about it for several dozen posts as if your opinions will become facts if you repeat them sufficiently.

There is absolutely no 'windfall' to be made.

The municipality didn't create the ROW; its a public asset for everyone along the route.

Again, the argument is not whether the operation of a rail service is sustained, but rather whether if it is not, the land is banked for other purposes, including, but not limited to, a recreational trail; and leaves open the possibility of retained/restored use as a rail corridor in any portion where there may be value in that, at a future point.

 

[smallspy]

I was going on the assumption that the case for a viable freight service - for the entire route - no longer exists

The 4 remaining businesses in Brampton that ship via OBRY are likely going to want to remain rail-served, regardless of what goes on further north.

If they could somehow manage to maintain the existing customers in Orangeville, it would be sustainable there for the foreseeable future too - but only with some changes to how the municipalities treat the line. Brampton right now is the biggest problem, as they are taxing the line at the full property tax rate (as is their right to do).

Dan

 

[lenaitch]

The 4 remaining businesses in Brampton that ship via OBRY are likely going to want to remain rail-served, regardless of what goes on further north.

If they could somehow manage to maintain the existing customers in Orangeville, it would be sustainable there for the foreseeable future too - but only with some changes to how the municipalities treat the line. Brampton right now is the biggest problem, as they are taxing the line at the full property tax rate (as is their right to do).

Dan

With the Brampton customers, it would likely just become an industrial spur. As for Orangeville, I must be missing something. Isn't it the industrial consortium and the town that have said the line is no longer sustainable? Short of something else coming along to help pay the bills - such as commuter rail - the owner gets to decide to no longer sustain it. I assume that how it gets disposed of is up to the owner and the municipalities through which it passes. As a shortline, whether it has to go through the CTA divestment process is something I don't know.

 

[ShonTron]

Where along the OBRY do you see this happening? It seems more likely to me that low rise residential owners will acquire it for bigger backyards, much as the late lamented CNoR route northwest of Kennedy Station. Given it seems to pass by a couple of correctional institutions there may be resistance on their part to a public trail in that section.

North of Elliott Street in Brampton, part of it might end up just becoming a road cut under the CN to redirect some traffic from the Mill Street-CN-Railroad St crossing.

It shouldn't be a problem. There's a public path next to the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre in South London. The youth centre and the Ontario Correctional Institute (which are medium/minimum security facilities) do not come right up against the railway, apart from a section of a fenced-in sports field with a privacy berm.

The 4 remaining businesses in Brampton that ship via OBRY are likely going to want to remain rail-served, regardless of what goes on further north.

If they could somehow manage to maintain the existing customers in Orangeville, it would be sustainable there for the foreseeable future too - but only with some changes to how the municipalities treat the line. Brampton right now is the biggest problem, as they are taxing the line at the full property tax rate (as is their right to do).

Dan

I thought there were just two customers left in Brampton - Vulsay Industries (via the spur across Van Kirk) and Armacell. Other industrial sidings have been disconnected, including Brampton Brick.

 

[smallspy]

I thought there were just two customers left in Brampton - Vulsay Industries (via the spur across Van Kirk) and Armacell. Other industrial sidings have been disconnected, including Brampton Brick.

Those are the two in the north.

Further south are Katoen Natie and SCI, just south of Creditview.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

Those are the two in the north.

Further south are Katoen Natie and SCI, just south of Creditview.

Dan

I thought those two businesses - which are in Mississauga - were serviced direct by CP, not by OBRY, and that CP retained the first mile or so of the Owen Sound Sub.

Edit: this is also what the RAC Atlas shows:

 

[Allandale25]

Brampton City staff have expressed a view on what could happen with OBRY. This would suggest that they don't see the value in protecting the corridor for any freight corridor to the north within Brampton. I'm sure if this happened CN would want a multiuse path to be grade separated over the Halton Sub.

Deck here: https://pub-brampton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=27599

 

[ShonTron]

Or under the CN line. Years ago, there were plans to build a McMurchy Avenue extension over the tracks to connect to Rosedale/Pleasantview. Pleasantview is especially wide for the traffic it gets, likely in anticipation of such a connection.

Rather than a grade separation at the diamond, I would see pedestrians/cyclists forced to detour to Mill Street or to a future McMurchy overpass.

 

[ARG1]

Brampton City staff have expressed a view on what could happen with OBRY. This would suggest that they don't see the value in protecting the corridor for any freight corridor to the north within Brampton. I'm sure if this happened CN would want a multiuse path to be grade separated over the Halton Sub.

Deck here: https://pub-brampton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=27599

View attachment 329903

Jesus Why? This line has so much potential, why are we repeating the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again.

 

[Nomad_87]

Jesus Why? This line has so much potential, why are we repeating the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again.

Long term pain for short term gain is the way things are done in this province

 

[allengeorge]

Jesus Why? This line has so much potential, why are we repeating the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again.

No foresight. Or, intentional blindness borne of a car-oriented culture.

No wonder transit project prices keep skyrocketing. If you don't protect ROWs, you've to expropriate - and that's expensive with today's land values, so you end up building underground if you have to (because we're allergic to elevated) Poof! Billions!

 

[ARG1]

No foresight. Or, intentional blindness borne of a car-oriented culture.

No wonder transit project prices keep skyrocketing. If you don't protect ROWs, you've to expropriate - and that's expensive with today's land values, so you end up building underground if you have to (because we're allergic to elevated) Poof! Billions!

Current Brampton Council is actually pretty anti-car. The problem is the current council is more pro-bikes than they are pro busses and trains, so stuff like riverside walks and trails are more valuable than rail corridors to them.

 

[robmausser]

Current Brampton Council is actually pretty anti-car. The problem is the current council is more pro-bikes than they are pro busses and trains, so stuff like riverside walks and trails are more valuable than rail corridors to them.

Whats silly is that there is already a trail quite close in the area that parallels the ORBY. And its in a nice ravine, the ORBY in that area goes through an Industrial complex.

 

[crs1026]

^Even with the parallel route in place, I can't blame Brampton city staff for jumping to retain the corridor given the abundant indication that it's about to become available.

I'm not a long distance cyclist, but the prospect of being able to hop off the GO in Brampton and cycle on a flat, straight trail beyond the end of civilization (8 kms) towards Boston Mills or Inglewood (20 kms one way) is actually quite appealing. 26 kms each way to the Forks will be within many peoples' cycling range for a day outing.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ It would be interesting to see if it does become a multiuse trail how they would deal with some major roads, like Bovaird. A bridge similar to the one on Hurontario/old Highway 10* in Caledon would be neat. I realize it wouldn't be cheap, but if there is development one day in the surplus lands in downtown Brampton where the CP station was/yard tracks, maybe some of the property tax uplift revenues could go to these kind of active transportation bridges for the corridor.

* Is this still King's Highway 10? I can't remember and this MTO map isn't really clear: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/publications/official-road-map/pdfs/map-3.pdf