Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[SaugeenJunction]

I took a drive from Englehart to North bay today to see the progress of the work done to prepare for the return of the Northlander.

I asked a question of a train crew.
Internally, the word is….

May.


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Awesome shots!

 

[micheal_can]

Awesome shots!

Thank you. It was a nice day for a drive.

 

[roger1818]

I've never been to North Bay, but the more I look at pictures and maps of the station, the more impressed I am at how great an intermodal facility it is. It really should be the model for other intermodal stations. If only they could do something similar in Sudbury, but Ontario Northland doesn't even stop at Sudbury Via Station (or Sudbury Jct, which is less of a surprise).

 

[micheal_can]

I've never been to North Bay, but the more I look at pictures and maps of the station, the more impressed I am at how great an intermodal facility it is. It really should be the model for other intermodal stations. If only they could do something similar in Sudbury, but Ontario Northland doesn't even stop at Sudbury Via Station (or Sudbury Jct, which is less of a surprise).

They could...
If all trains were to go to the Sudbury downtown station, they could take some of the parking area and make a bus station too. And there are multiple city buses that go by that. And within a km is the city bus terminal. The Ontario Northland buses sometimes serve the downtown bus terminal with some of their routes. My hope is that the Northlander is such a success it spurs real passenger transportation infrastructure investment in Northern ON.

 

[Bordercollie]

They could...
If all trains were to go to the Sudbury downtown station, they could take some of the parking area and make a bus station too. And there are multiple city buses that go by that. And within a km is the city bus terminal. The Ontario Northland buses sometimes serve the downtown bus terminal with some of their routes. My hope is that the Northlander is such a success it spurs real passenger transportation infrastructure investment in Northern ON.

They can't because CN and CP have directional running that's why there are two stations.

 

[micheal_can]

They can't because CN and CP have directional running that's why there are two stations.

I did not say they can do it easily, but, that direction running is south of where both of those lines meet and south of Sudbury and Sudbury junction stations. Coniston is where they start directional running.

 

[dowlingm]

I've never been to North Bay, but the more I look at pictures and maps of the station, the more impressed I am at how great an intermodal facility it is. It really should be the model for other intermodal stations. If only they could do something similar in Sudbury, but Ontario Northland doesn't even stop at Sudbury Via Station (or Sudbury Jct, which is less of a surprise).

If (as I believe they should, with the feds transferring the portion of subsidy from VIA to them) ONTC took over operation of Sudbury-White River, I daresay they would develop an interest in stopping buses at Sudbury station, at least where they would connect to the onward service.

 

[smallspy]

They can't because CN and CP have directional running that's why there are two stations.

The directional running starts south of Sudbury, not north. They run on their own respective lines through the City.

Dan

 

[roger1818]

If (as I believe they should, with the feds transferring the portion of subsidy from VIA to them) ONTC took over operation of Sudbury-White River, I daresay they would develop an interest in stopping buses at Sudbury station, at least where they would connect to the onward service.

While there are many reasons why it would make sense for ONR to take over operation of the White River train, I don't think it will ever happen. The second best option would be for VIA and Ontario Northland to actually work together for the common good, rather than build silos. It will be interesting to see if VIA will use the Northlander's new shelter in Washago for the Canadian, or continue to use their own "Station." Of course that depends on where the shelter is placed.

 

[micheal_can]

The difference between the Sudbury station and the North Bay station has a lot to do with ownership. At the time of construction (1990) The province of Ontario owned the tracks, the passenger train and some bus routes. They were all under the same umbrella. That means it is easy to build a station for all of them.

The Sudbury downtown station is owned by Via, on CPKC Tracks,with ONR buses serving intercity bus routes. That means there would be 2 levels of governments and a private corporation to deal with. The bus station in Sudbury was built more as a way to kick the can down the road than much else. One day, if we ever got more than a train 3x a week, maybe it might be worth looking at amalgamating all the services there. The real challenge would be that to have the Canadian serve it would be a much bigger challenge as there is no way to wye the train currently. In my fantasy land, I can come up with many ways to do it, but unless it is asked, I will keep them to myself.

 

[crs1026]

I'm having a hard time envisioning the White River train generating enough bus ridership to move the needle. Ditto for train ridership on the Canadian, although there is local bus service to Capreol (not sure if times line up).

It makes sense to have a single train-bus transportation hub for Sudbury. But you won't see many canoes or coolers carried by bus. The White River train needs a station with a parking lot more than a bus stop.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

I'm having a hard time envisioning the White River train generating enough bus ridership to move the needle.

Especially considering that most of the ridership is going to or coming from places that a bus can't reach.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

I'm having a hard time envisioning the White River train generating enough bus ridership to move the needle. Ditto for train ridership on the Canadian, although there is local bus service to Capreol (not sure if times line up).

It makes sense to have a single train-bus transportation hub for Sudbury. But you won't see many canoes or coolers carried by bus. The White River train needs a station with a parking lot more than a bus stop.

- Paul

There’s no point lining the times up between the Capreol transit bus and the Canadian train, given how unreliable it is and how little traffic would be connecting. I have done it before, back when the train was 3x/week, and it wasn’t too bad.

 

[micheal_can]

I'm having a hard time envisioning the White River train generating enough bus ridership to move the needle. Ditto for train ridership on the Canadian, although there is local bus service to Capreol (not sure if times line up).

It makes sense to have a single train-bus transportation hub for Sudbury. But you won't see many canoes or coolers carried by bus. The White River train needs a station with a parking lot more than a bus stop.

- Paul

In their current configurations, the Via routes make no sense in having an intermodal station. It would only make sense if we had trains serving daily, or near daily. Do we want to discuss what that would be?

 

[lenaitch]

I'm having a hard time envisioning the White River train generating enough bus ridership to move the needle. Ditto for train ridership on the Canadian, although there is local bus service to Capreol (not sure if times line up).

It makes sense to have a single train-bus transportation hub for Sudbury. But you won't see many canoes or coolers carried by bus. The White River train needs a station with a parking lot more than a bus stop.

- Paul

The only reason the Sudbury-White River service still exists (and I'm surprised it does) is under its regional/remote mandate when Canadian was switched to CN. I'm not even sure how valid that is anymore since I think most if not all former rail-served communities (like Biscotasing) now have road access of some quality. The enroute population is vanishingly small, with the two 'main' communities of White River and Chapleau - both on highways - total under 3000. It does serve some lodges and back country trippers. People in White River have virtually no natural connection to services in Sudbury, let alone take 8+ hours to do it, unless they have a screaming urge to go to a Costco.

I suspect it's existence, like the north Quebec service, is likely due to the unacceptable political capital it would expend to cancel it.

I've never been to North Bay, but the more I look at pictures and maps of the station, the more impressed I am at how great an intermodal facility it is. It really should be the model for other intermodal stations. If only they could do something similar in Sudbury, but Ontario Northland doesn't even stop at Sudbury Via Station (or Sudbury Jct, which is less of a surprise).

It is intermodal in the sense that both ONR bus and rail will use it. City transit might have serviced it but I'm not sure. City transit does service the Northgate Mall which has tunnel access to the station.