Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[Tunafish13]

The Northlander can't back out and meet the Polar Bear, because there's nowhere near enough time for it to get to Cochrane before the PB departs. That's why they have a bus shuttle from Matheson to Cochrane.

So does this "Rail Connection" only really matter for people in Cochrane or Timmins? Because as you said, no matter what this connection is they wont be able to meet the PBE until its next run.

 

[lenaitch]

Design 1:

Design 2:

How about this?

I actually like this option. I think darker colours don't look grungy as quickly, it closely matches the PBX livery, and lots of blue to keep the Conservatives happy.

 

[lenaitch]

The Northlander can't back out and meet the Polar Bear, because there's nowhere near enough time for it to get to Cochrane before the PB departs. That's why they have a bus shuttle from Matheson to Cochrane.

I haven't heard one way or the other either. I suspect it will be a bus shuttle. I can't remember if the business case actually addressed connectivity between the two runs, even in terms of timing. I think it would be difficult to line up both services; The Northlander will be long and subject the CN for part of it. The PBX is a flag service and difficult to accurate schedule.

The PBX won't be extending to Timmins (Porcupine). It's a mixed consist and there is no place to handle the freight except to backhaul it to Cochrane. So if you are coming s/b with a vehicle on a chain car, you get to get off in Cochrane, watch it head s/b and wait a few hours for it to show back up. The y *could* break the train up in Cochrane but that is a lot of logistics and scheduling. It's a tight enough turnaround for a train that gets in at 2200 and leaves at 0900 the next day.

 

[just east of the creek]

I haven't heard one way or the other either. I suspect it will be a bus shuttle. I can't remember if the business case actually addressed connectivity between the two runs, even in terms of timing. I think it would be difficult to line up both services; The Northlander will be long and subject the CN for part of it. The PBX is a flag service and difficult to accurate schedule.

The PBX won't be extending to Timmins (Porcupine). It's a mixed consist and there is no place to handle the freight except to backhaul it to Cochrane. So if you are coming s/b with a vehicle on a chain car, you get to get off in Cochrane, watch it head s/b and wait a few hours for it to show back up. The y *could* break the train up in Cochrane but that is a lot of logistics and scheduling. It's a tight enough turnaround for a train that gets in at 2200 and leaves at 0900 the next day.

Loved that train. Would ride south, dump our gear at the Cochrane station, walk ’downtown’ to the local Chinese Food Emporium, scrape whatever money we had together, ask the proprietor what they could do with whatever $ we had, and later, filled up on egg fried rice, chicken balls, beef and broccoli, and chop suey, head back to the station to lie in wait for the Northlander. I’m not sure any of that could be the same again, but it would be nice to try.

 

[ShonTron]

Loved that train. Would ride south, dump our gear at the Cochrane station, walk ’downtown’ to the local Chinese Food Emporium, scrape whatever money we had together, ask the proprietor what they could do with whatever $ we had, and later, filled up on egg fried rice, chicken balls, beef and broccoli, and chop suey, head back to the station to lie in wait for the Northlander. I’m not sure any of that could be the same again, but it would be nice to try.

When I did that train with a friend in May 2012 - soon after the Northlander's fate was announced - we stayed two nights in the hotel inside the station, while taking the Polar Bear Express up to Moosonee for the day. That was an experience. We ate at the JD BBQ Ranch - which is still there, over 13 years later, and my friend managed to get us a tour of the ONR shops and some of the equipment. Really old-school railroading up there.

The Polar Bear Express was worth it for the experience of riding a remote mixed train, but with few exceptions (Moose River crossing and Otter Rapids), the scenery is not at all remarkable, as you're passing through relatively flat bush the whole way up.

 

[micheal_can]

I was at the open house in the North Bay station. There is a lot to unpack.

The train will be stored in Cochrane. It will start in Cochrane and head to Timmins. Then it will head to Toronto. Going back it will leave Toronto and head to Timmins. Then it will go to Cochrane where it will end. There will be an express bus between Cochrane and Matheson for those that want it.

The Porcupine station is set to go to tender in 2025. However, this does not mean that the station needs to be built to serve it.

For expansion outside of this corridor, there needs to be the need for 4 buses along a route for them to justify the cost if they do not own the ROW.

 

[Kitsune]

so a Sudbury - Toronto train is possible that doesnt rely on the crazy Canadian schedule, or the station locations? Getting something downtown Toronto to downtown Sudbury would be .. interesting.

 

[just east of the creek]

When I did that train with a friend in May 2012 - soon after the Northlander's fate was announced - we stayed two nights in the hotel inside the station, while taking the Polar Bear Express up to Moosonee for the day. That was an experience. We ate at the JD BBQ Ranch - which is still there, over 13 years later, and my friend managed to get us a tour of the ONR shops and some of the equipment. Really old-school railroading up there.

The Polar Bear Express was worth it for the experience of riding a remote mixed train, but with few exceptions (Moose River crossing and Otter Rapids), the scenery is not at all remarkable, as you're passing through relatively flat bush the whole way up.

Moosonee is always an experience. And the outlying areas. Truly a way of life much separated from our own, and with visible improvements over the number of years.

Did you go across the river to the Moose Factory trading post? Or take a motorized canoe down to the Bay (it’s a long paddle) In late summer the migrating water birds are quite a sight, even if the temperature can be downright nippy.

I actually have never been on the PBX, always the local, which was a few freight cars and one or two non PBX passenger cars of uncertain vintage. We’d load up in the morning and then rattle along to Cochrane, making a few flag stops i believe, arriving sometime late afternoon? By then the spam sandwiches would be long gone.

The Cochrane Station Inn has always had a good reputation. Built in the early 1900’s when the towns importance as a hub was greater than today, and the surrounding lands were envisioned for farms, forestry and mining. Perhaps if the GTR had been routed a bit further to the south, through what became the Porcupine mining district, Cochrane might not exist, and the the PBX would terminate in Timmins.

I looked again and John Macintosh Lyle was the architect for the building. His work is worth looking up.

 

[ShonTron]

I wanted to go to Moose Factory but the ferry wasn’t running yet the day we went up. We had lunch at Skyranch.

 

[micheal_can]

so a Sudbury - Toronto train is possible that doesnt rely on the crazy Canadian schedule, or the station locations? Getting something downtown Toronto to downtown Sudbury would be .. interesting.

"Possible"

If I were to read the tea leaves, give the Northlander 5 years of success and we might see expansion to Sudbury.

However, if due to the closure of Domtar in Espanola, HCR threatens to close, ONR might buy the line and then we might see a SSM - Sudbury -Toronto service. To complicate this, the Sudbury -North Bay bus runs twice a day, One continues to Ottawa. So, maybe there will be a Sudbury = North Bay train one day too.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

"Possible"

If I were to read the tea leaves, give the Northlander 5 years of success and we might see expansion to Sudbury.

However, if due to the closure of Domtar in Espanola, HCR threatens to close, ONR might buy the line and then we might see a SSM - Sudbury -Toronto service. To complicate this, the Sudbury -North Bay bus runs twice a day, One continues to Ottawa. So, maybe there will be a Sudbury = North Bay train one day too.

I have to imagine that they'd be very tempted to make it a SSM - Sudbury - North Bay service as either a J train or an actual connection to the Northlander.

 

[micheal_can]

I have to imagine that they'd be very tempted to make it a SSM - Sudbury - North Bay service as either a J train or an actual connection to the Northlander.

Maybe a SSM - Sudbury - North Bay and a Sudbury - Toronto train.

 

[nfitz]

so a Sudbury - Toronto train is possible that doesnt rely on the crazy Canadian schedule, or the station locations? Getting something downtown Toronto to downtown Sudbury would be .. interesting.

How is this related to Sudbury? Are they talking about running from North Bay to Sudbury? Is that something that Ottawa Valley Railway wants?

 

[micheal_can]

How is this related to Sudbury? Are they talking about running from North Bay to Sudbury? Is that something that Ottawa Valley Railway wants?

If it meant they could afford to upgrade their line, they might want it.

 

[lenaitch]

Loved that train. Would ride south, dump our gear at the Cochrane station, walk ’downtown’ to the local Chinese Food Emporium, scrape whatever money we had together, ask the proprietor what they could do with whatever $ we had, and later, filled up on egg fried rice, chicken balls, beef and broccoli, and chop suey, head back to the station to lie in wait for the Northlander. I’m not sure any of that could be the same again, but it would be nice to try.

The Golden Flower! Outstanding Canadian-Chinese food; seriously sketchy decor. It's still there. The only Chinese restaurant I know where you get toast with a meal.

so a Sudbury - Toronto train is possible that doesnt rely on the crazy Canadian schedule, or the station locations? Getting something downtown Toronto to downtown Sudbury would be .. interesting.

I'm not sure that's what was said, but at least it seems the Commission has some sort of criteria for pursuing a business case. Any service expansion would require the blessing and funding of the government. The ONTC gets to do what the government says it gets to do. Other than serving the two terminus cities, a Sudbury-Toronto pax service wouldn't serve much else of consequence.

The Cochrane Station Inn has always had a good reputation.

I understand the contract for the restaurant has recently changed and is quite good.

I wanted to go to Moose Factory but the ferry wasn’t running yet the day we went up. We had lunch at Skyranch.

You used to be able to catch a 'water taxi' freighter canoe over to the island, but that was quite a while ago. Maybe for the best - it was a hairy ride.