Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[innsertnamehere]

it's very small in comparison but very large for the amount of people it actually serves. The preliminary business case identifies a grand total of 30-40,000 Annual riders. That's an average of 100 riders a day on the high end.

The northland train service is never going to be anything more than a niche service to satisfy a niche politically important demographic.

Even with the train, it's projected that the existing coach bus service would have double the ridership as the train as it's faster and more frequent.

 

[nfitz]

Even with the train, it's projected that the existing coach bus service would have double the ridership as the train as it's faster and more frequent.

And stops in all sorts of places the bus doesn't.

Only real advantage of the train, is in winter weather.

 

[TRONto]

it's very small in comparison but very large for the amount of people it actually serves. The preliminary business case identifies a grand total of 30-40,000 Annual riders. That's an average of 100 riders a day on the high end.

The northland train service is never going to be anything more than a niche service to satisfy a niche politically important demographic.

Even with the train, it's projected that the existing coach bus service would have double the ridership as the train as it's faster and more frequent.

I used to be more directly aligned with your view and the more I read and asked questions here, I have changed my mind.

Some things we do for more than the high level cost-benefit. As with COVID, when we didn't update our stocks of PPE (save money), there are consequences.

There is a lot more winter up north. There are plenty conditions that would knock out bus service up north. I see this as a public duty to find a reasonably dependable way to connect our fellow citizens up north.

 

[UrbanJon]

Did you see the numbers? I saw someone post the burying the Eglinton West LRT vs putting it at grade would pay for 176 years of service. The subsidy is very small in the scheme of things.

It is about putting subsidies where they are effective and provide proper benefits. The Northlander, Huron Central and OBRY are all wastes of government subsidies. They don't provide enough benefit for the money they take.

it's very small in comparison but very large for the amount of people it actually serves. The preliminary business case identifies a grand total of 30-40,000 Annual riders. That's an average of 100 riders a day on the high end.

The northland train service is never going to be anything more than a niche service to satisfy a niche politically important demographic.

Even with the train, it's projected that the existing coach bus service would have double the ridership as the train as it's faster and more frequent.

This is why I oppose the return of the Northlander. We are potentially spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a service that will end up being a downgrade of existing offerings and it is all because "train good, bus bad". Most of the support for the Northlander comes from armchairs who will never actually use the service.

 

[Allandale25]

Short line extension to Timmins a long shot?

New station and reinstallation of tracks would add to capital costs

www.timminspress.com

 

[lenaitch]

Short line extension to Timmins a long shot?

New station and reinstallation of tracks would add to capital costs

www.timminspress.com

I tend to agree with the headline. Although Timmins would have the higher potential ridership, after the announcements have done their political magic, governments tend to get cold feet, and upfront spending like this and new trainsets become vulnerable.

Rail is pretty much still intact to the area called Golden City (east of S.Porcupine). It's a little farther out but municipal transit could connect. There would still be the matter of no station.

Earlier I said there is no wye nearby. It seems there is a short one near the Kidd Met Site but I can't tell if it is still intact. It looks too short to turn a train.

 

[micheal_can]

I tend to agree with the headline. Although Timmins would have the higher potential ridership, after the announcements have done their political magic, governments tend to get cold feet, and upfront spending like this and new trainsets become vulnerable.

Rail is pretty much still intact to the area called Golden City (east of S.Porcupine). It's a little farther out but municipal transit could connect. There would still be the matter of no station.

Earlier I said there is no wye nearby. It seems there is a short one near the Kidd Met Site but I can't tell if it is still intact. It looks too short to turn a train.

What about just extending the tracks to the highway? Also couldn't the wye be lengthened?

 

[lenaitch]

What about just extending the tracks to the highway? Also couldn't the wye be lengthened?

If you look on Google, it is darn near the highway. Actually, a lot of the ROW is still there, but it really poor shape and road crossings have either been severed or paved over. Could the wye be lengthened? I suppose; it's only money.

 

[micheal_can]

If you look on Google, it is darn near the highway. Actually, a lot of the ROW is still there, but it really poor shape and road crossings have either been severed or paved over. Could the wye be lengthened? I suppose; it's only money.

To give Timmins, the largest city in the area, a passenger rail link would potentially transform the area. Let's say it costs $1 million to rebuild the line, extend the wye, build a new parking lot by the highway and build a new station, that would be money well spent in the area.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402255648323162120

 

[Bordercollie]

Frankly if the PC's dont win the next election it wont happen.
The issue is there isnt anyone who is a solid candidate to run against them. Maybe NDP? Or a minority PC government. I dont see the liberals getting any votes anytime soon unless they elect a new leader.

 

[daniel_kryz]

Frankly if the PC's dont win the next election it wont happen.
The issue is there isnt anyone who is a solid candidate to run against them. Maybe NDP? Or a minority PC government. I dont see the liberals getting any votes anytime soon unless they elect a new leader.

NDP has criticized Ford for not implementing the Northlander within his first term (which was a big election promise), and they promised to restore train service if elected in 2022.

More than three years later, and nearing the end of their term in government, the Ford government just gave us a plan to build a potential plan for years in the future. Sounds like more election promises with no train in sight.

New Democrats are calling for funding for the project, and a clear timeline for when the trains will start running. And if Doug Ford refuses to deliver that before the election in 2022, the NDP is committed to reviving the Northlander, and the essential transportation service it provided for northern communities.

https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-leaves-northerners-stuck-waiting-northlander-ndp (May 25, 2021)

 

[micheal_can]

Ford knows Fedeli won't get in if it isn't running by the end of the term. I have a feeling it will be one of the last things before calling an election to happen.

 

[Allandale25]

All aboard Almaguin? South River residents lobbying for train stop

The Almaguin Highlands are the heart of Ontario’s nature Adventureland, according to Todd Lucier of Explore South River, and that’s why he said he was disappointed when he learned Ontario Northland...

www.northbaynipissing.com

 

[Northern Light]

All aboard Almaguin? South River residents lobbying for train stop

The Almaguin Highlands are the heart of Ontario’s nature Adventureland, according to Todd Lucier of Explore South River, and that’s why he said he was disappointed when he learned Ontario Northland...

www.northbaynipissing.com

Assuming service were restored on this route, I do agree that there's a long gap between Huntsville and North Bay..........

However, Its a tough case to me that there's a compelling reason for a stop.

There really isn't a critical mass population centre.

Nor is there a singular tourist attraction.

Its certainly a lovely area if one is a nature lover............

But there's no Provincial or National Park nearby.

* Algonquin, depending on the exact spot is about 20km, 'as the crow flies'........but there are no campgrounds or major public access points nearby.

It strikes me that if the region wants to become a clear tourist draw (more likely that becoming a significant population centre in the near-term); they will need
a major entrance to Algonquin, accessible by road, with a full-service campground, day and overnight hiking trails, canoe/kayak rental etc.

Until then; delaying people on a very long trip, with another stop is a hard sell.