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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

smallspy said:
They will be maintained at the TMC, which is being reconfigured to better suit the maintenance of the Siemens sets. Any running repairs will be done at Cochrane, where that work on the passenger equipment has always been done.

Dan
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That would be much better than the one in Montreal.
 
smallspy said:
They will be maintained at the TMC, which is being reconfigured to better suit the maintenance of the Siemens sets. Any running repairs will be done at Cochrane, where that work on the passenger equipment has always been done.
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IIRC the VIA Siemens contract includes management expertise and technical support. No disrespect to the folks at Cochrane or North Bay, but it's far better than the people doing the maintenance have the expertise and technical backup that the workforce at TMC will have. And the physical work area setup and parts supply, too.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
IIRC the VIA Siemens contract includes management expertise and technical support. No disrespect to the folks at Cochrane or North Bay, but it's far better than the people doing the maintenance have the expertise and technical backup that the workforce at TMC will have. And the physical work area setup and parts supply, too.

- Paul
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Part of the problem with this view is, from a northerner view, "Southern Ontario is screwing the North of jobs.."
 
micheal_can said:
Part of the problem with this view is, from a northerner view, "Southern Ontario is screwing the North of jobs.."
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There are a hundred partisan ways to throw this back and forth on that level, but I will take the high road.

The money saved by doing things this way probably allows some other expenditure in the North that wouldn't happen if ONR had to tie up more money in a parts inventory, maintenance facility, training time, paperwork, etc etc. Not to mention the possibility that the odd train might actually get cancelled because a spare part had to make a rush trip northwards, or Siemens had to send a technician north to address an unexpected problem that the local shop forces hadn't seen before or was beyond their capability. And do the work in the open, or in a less well equipped shop.

I think the $135M investment in the new trains ought to express sufficient support for the North.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
There are a hundred partisan ways to throw this back and forth on that level, but I will take the high road.

The money saved by doing things this way probably allows some other expenditure in the North that wouldn't happen if ONR had to tie up more money in a parts inventory, maintenance facility, training time, paperwork, etc etc. Not to mention the possibility that the odd train might actually get cancelled because a spare part had to make a rush trip northwards, or Siemens had to send a technician north to address an unexpected problem that the local shop forces hadn't seen before or was beyond their capability. And do the work in the open, or in a less well equipped shop.

I think the $135M investment in the new trains ought to express sufficient support for the North.

- Paul
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I understand how that may look from a business standpoint, but from a political standpoint, it could be viewed as being screwed over again.Just like when there ws a period where GO coaches were being refurbished in Montreal instead of in North Bay. Government spending is more about optics than about financial sense.
 
micheal_can said:
I understand how that may look from a business standpoint, but from a political standpoint, it could be viewed as being screwed over again.Just like when there ws a period where GO coaches were being refurbished in Montreal instead of in North Bay. Government spending is more about optics than about financial sense.
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I understand human nature, but if we allow that mentality to override sound decisionmaking there will always be some gripe that gets in the way. If Queens Park thought that putting this service back was just going to generate complaints, why would they bother? Hopefully the majority of interested Northern residents see that overall they have been heard, and are getting a solid benefit here.

PS - I have had first-hand discussion with people who sought quotes for contracted carshop work in North Bay. In their experience, the price quoted was astronomical compared to other bids. Those orders placed elsewhere may have been justified and may be a useful reality check.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I understand human nature, but if we allow that mentality to override sound decisionmaking there will always be some gripe that gets in the way. If Queens Park thought that putting this service back was just going to generate complaints, why would they bother? Hopefully the majority of interested Northern residents see that overall they have been heard, and are getting a solid benefit here.

PS - I have had first-hand discussion with people who sought quotes for contracted carshop work in North Bay. In their experience, the price quoted was astronomical compared to other bids. Those orders placed elsewhere may have been justified and may be a useful reality check.

- Paul
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I doubt anyone will know where the cars are being maintained except for the ones who work for ONR and Via. Also, the train used to run 6 days a week throughout the year.Now we are getting 4-7 days a week depending on time of year.

Overall, most voters who don';t care will see its return as a win, but a voter in tune with what exactly is happening will not be fully satisfied as it is running less and not being maintained in the North. I am guessing the PCs have taking that loss as a win overall.
 
Seeing as three trainsets will essentially be orphans to the rest of ONR's rolling stock, having them serviced with VIA's fleet makes sense. I suppose the Ontario government could have signed a maintenance contract that would see them serviced in the north, but it would have been much more expensive, particularly if it required modification to the car and diesel shops. For three trainsets, they would be no doubt duplicating a lot of expensive equipment and facilities.

For people who will be upset at the frequency, be happy it is returning - with brand new equipment - a lobby to change it.

I doubt where the equipment is serviced is going to move many votes one way or the other.

As for refurbishing contracts, if ONTC wants to play in the game, they have to be competitive. I think they are a lot better than they used to be after the scare of being broken up and sold. Dodging a bullet tends to focus the mind. Metrolinx could probably get away with sole-source the work to it's sister government agency, but I thought we wanted governments to spend wisely. People both applaud and condemn TTC for choosing Bombardier (Alstom) because it keeps jobs in Thunder Bay.
 
lenaitch said:
Seeing as three trainsets will essentially be orphans to the rest of ONR's rolling stock, having them serviced with VIA's fleet makes sense. I suppose the Ontario government could have signed a maintenance contract that would see them serviced in the north, but it would have been much more expensive, particularly if it required modification to the car and diesel shops. For three trainsets, they would be no doubt duplicating a lot of expensive equipment and facilities.

For people who will be upset at the frequency, be happy it is returning - with brand new equipment - a lobby to change it.

I doubt where the equipment is serviced is going to move many votes one way or the other.

As for refurbishing contracts, if ONTC wants to play in the game, they have to be competitive. I think they are a lot better than they used to be after the scare of being broken up and sold. Dodging a bullet tends to focus the mind. Metrolinx could probably get away with sole-source the work to it's sister government agency, but I thought we wanted governments to spend wisely. People both applaud and condemn TTC for choosing Bombardier (Alstom) because it keeps jobs in Thunder Bay.
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When the TEE was serviced in North Bay, they had to make modified doors to let part of the train to stay out.
 
The only thing I think is unfortunate about the Siemens sets for ONR, and indeed the VIA order, is that the cabs aren’t partially (at the driving end) or fully baggage.
 
lenaitch said:
???
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One of the advantages medium-long distance trains should have over buses is the ability to transport larger personal items - especially to/from rural destinations. The cab car would be a logical place for this because it would create a larger buffer zone between passengers and collisions.
 
dowlingm said:
One of the advantages medium-long distance trains should have over buses is the ability to transport larger personal items - especially to/from rural destinations. The cab car would be a logical place for this because it would create a larger buffer zone between passengers and collisions.
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I get it. I guess the sentence structure threw me. The overwhelming need is to put revenue-generating bums in as many seats as possibly, and baggage space detracts from that. Do any of the current corridor configurations have baggage? I'm not convinced rural psssengers are any more prone to generate large items than any other type of destination. It's not like they will be loading a moose carcass or are bringing their fall turnip crop to market.

I suppose if there is a groundswell of canoe trippers bound for Algonquin Park in the future they may have to re-think things.
 
I suspect that because of the small size of the order, ON needed to order a trainset that was already Transport Canada approved. Reconfiguring cars for baggage or sleeping compartments would likely have likely required more testing by TC. This would not only have increased costs but might have caused ON to miss the window to have them built after VIA‘s order was complete. As a result they likely weren’t able to change much more than the paint and upholstery colours. If VIA later orders sleeper and baggage cars from Siemens, ON might be able to tag onto that order as well.
 
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