Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[SaugeenJunction]

^ Via a posting on this FB group:

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(I can't find publication "Shortline News")

I'm happy because whether it is in Northern Ontario or on Cape Breton Island, Genessee & Wyoming always steals from government by asking for handouts because they refuse to properly maintain their own infrastructure. If the Feds and Province had invested money, we'd be back to square one in 7-10 years. With G&W gone, the Province and Feds can deal directly with CP Rail, who owns the line to find a way to save it. This project is VERY MUCH on the radar of the provincial government. I really really hope to see ONTC step in.

 

[Bordercollie]

In regards to train service between Toronto and North Bay, and Sudbury does ONR have enough existing equipment to run that train?

Are there any more AMT Ex GO cars still in storage that could be rebuilt?

New rolling stock would likely be cost prohibitive. Possibly leasing GO Bi levels might be an option? But if that's the case it should just be run as a Metronlix service, since it's all funded by the province anyways.

If the train service could be fast enough I'm sure that there is appetite to live in cottage country and work in Toronto. Especially post covid people won't be commuting to the office everyday, but instead one or two times a week making commuting from Muskoka possible.

 

[lenaitch]

Does anybody know what is going to happen with the Algoma Central Railway. I have heard that the section between Hawk Jct. and Sault has been closed since the spring, and the rest of the line isn't doing much better, barely getting a couple trains a week. Didn't CN say they were going to sell it? Does this also mean the Agawa Canyon train is done for good?

It (CN Soo subdivision) is listed as 'retain' in their 3-year plan updated July 2019. No knowledge about recent traffic levels. Traffic has been down from historic since the mine closed in Wawa in 1998 but it still does interchange work with ONR. With the proposed ferrochrome smelter for SSM in the works, I would be surprised if they were even considering tossing it, at least before that proposal gets sorted out,

Another post inquiring about the fate of specific lines. You either need better sources or try your own research - the Internet is your friend.

 

[micheal_can]

In regards to train service between Toronto and North Bay, and Sudbury does ONR have enough existing equipment to run that train?

Are there any more AMT Ex GO cars still in storage that could be rebuilt?

New rolling stock would likely be cost prohibitive. Possibly leasing GO Bi levels might be an option? But if that's the case it should just be run as a Metronlix service, since it's all funded by the province anyways.

If the train service could be fast enough I'm sure that there is appetite to live in cottage country and work in Toronto. Especially post covid people won't be commuting to the office everyday, but instead one or two times a week making commuting from Muskoka possible.

As far as I know, yes. So, they have the existing Polar Bear Express coaches. They have the former Northlander coaches. They also have some of the older Northlander and Little Bear coaches, which I think is still in Cochrane.

 

[lenaitch]

In regards to train service between Toronto and North Bay, and Sudbury does ONR have enough existing equipment to run that train?

Are there any more AMT Ex GO cars still in storage that could be rebuilt?

New rolling stock would likely be cost prohibitive. Possibly leasing GO Bi levels might be an option? But if that's the case it should just be run as a Metronlix service, since it's all funded by the province anyways.

If the train service could be fast enough I'm sure that there is appetite to live in cottage country and work in Toronto. Especially post covid people won't be commuting to the office everyday, but instead one or two times a week making commuting from Muskoka possible.

I don't know what happened to the rolling stock that was assigned to the Northlander but do know the some of the same series have gone (and are still going) through an extensive rebuild for the Moosonee train. If I had to guess they are probably in storage and I don't know how many 'spares' they had. They recently acquired a couple of new APUs so there is likely some slack there. GO bi-levels is probably over kill and I'm not sure commuter seating is conducive to longer haul runs anyway.

I've not heard any talk, from anybody, about passenger service to Sudbury beyond the current VIA.

It might be the same pot of money but I'm not sure Metrolinx needs the distraction - they're dance card seems rather full.

My jury is still out on any long-term shift to cottage country-GTA shared employment.

 

[ShonTron]

So where do we go from here? This might be a nail-biter. A probable source of disagreement between the feds and Ontario is that the feds had to negotiate in good-faith with G&W but the provincial government had other options and didn't want to give G&W money. Now that G&W is out, they can both look to find a real solution. I agree with Alexander on this one, ONTC is the obvious choice for this, likely in partnership with Diesel Electric to provide additional locomotives and maintenance. Add the ACR to the mix and you got yourself something good going. ONTC has been expanding bus services quite a bit recently, no reason they couldn't or shouldn't do the same for rail. Especially as northern economic activity picks up, it will be important that this lower traffic, but critical infrastructure is managed properly.

Ontario Northland has done some interesting things with their bus service, but it cut a few routes as well, including Manitoulin Island and White River-Hearst while opening up new direct SSM-Thunder Bay service and Thunder Bay-Winnipeg (three days a week via Dryden, three days a week via Fort Frances).

 

[ShonTron]

I was lucky enough to ride the whole line in February 2014, when the cancellation of the passenger service was announced.

Algoma Adventure

A trip to Sault Ste. Marie and the ACR to Hearst.

flickr.com

 

[lenaitch]

Fair enough, but have you seen this(click the link):

https://flic.kr/p/2jQgUG8

The whole line is pretty much embargoed. Just because it wasn't on the list a year ago, doesn't mean it isn't going to be on there in the next revision. It certainly is looking like the ACR is going to be abandoned. Suprised not many people are talking about this. It is a pretty big deal, though fair enough, HCR has taken a lot of the attention because there is an actual deadline.

There is no such thing as "pretty much embargoed". It is either operated or not. No arguing light traffic. As mentioned, much depends on the success of the proposed ferrochrome refinery. It would be dead in the water without rail service.

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario Northland has done some interesting things with their bus service, but it cut a few routes as well, including Manitoulin Island and White River-Hearst while opening up new direct SSM-Thunder Bay service and Thunder Bay-Winnipeg (three days a week via Dryden, three days a week via Fort Frances).

I think the problem with those two cuts was ridership - there wasn't any. As well, the original route doodle-bugging around Manitoulin ran into a problem with one or two low capacity bridges. I thought I read somewhere that some private operator did, or was at least considering, a local service on the island to link with the ONTC bus.

 

[Bordercollie]

So what happened to the old rolling stock used on the polar bear express? It seems to be rebuilt and non rebuilt ex-go cars for the most part.

 

[micheal_can]

So what happened to the old rolling stock used on the polar bear express? It seems to be rebuilt and non rebuilt ex-go cars for the most part.

Sitting in the yard, rotting away. If ONR were to reinstate service south of Cochrane or, add service elsewhere in the province, some coaches could be used fairly quickly, while others would need to be refurbished. Good thing the North Bay Shops can do that kind of work.

 

[lenaitch]

So what happened to the old rolling stock used on the polar bear express? It seems to be rebuilt and non rebuilt ex-go cars for the most part.

I'm not exactly sure there is such a thing as old PBE (passenger) rolling stock. As far as I know, all the former GO units used on both the Northlander and PBE were similar configurations (passenger, snack/diner, baggage, etc.). Other than keeping some on one run or the other for administrative purposes, they could easily be swapped about. They have only refurbished a handful into the new livery and longer trains draw on existing stock (plus a dome car in the summer). Obviously, they have more than they need because they are only running one train. I don't know if they have scrapped or sold any.

I could be wrong but as far as I know all in-house refurbishing and maintenance is performed at Cochrane Shops; North Bay is reserved for contract work except some specialized tasks.

 

[micheal_can]

Massey is palladium country

Exploration firms turn the drills near Sudbury

www.northernontariobusiness.com

This could provide some more car loads for HCR, and for the future of the ONR's ownership.

 

[lenaitch]

Massey is palladium country

Exploration firms turn the drills near Sudbury

www.northernontariobusiness.com

This could provide some more car loads for HCR, and for the future of the ONR's ownership.

Perhaps, but it is always a long step from exploratory drilling to commissioning a mine. Many would be surprised at the amount of drilling that goes on all over the north every year. It also depends on whether a mine is economical enough to have its own refinery or job it out to another site. When your output is measured in kilograms or even tonnes per week, rail usually isn't necessary; when it is in hundreds or thousands of tons, then ya. Palladium is like gold in that it is assayed in grams/ton

 

[tmlittle]

I think the problem with those two cuts was ridership - there wasn't any. As well, the original route doodle-bugging around Manitoulin ran into a problem with one or two low capacity bridges. I thought I read somewhere that some private operator did, or was at least considering, a local service on the island to link with the ONTC bus.

If I recall correctly, there was discussion about an on-call subsidized taxi service, mostly to support the reserves.