Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

[Sunnyside]

It seems quite clear that they want a Subway for the east extension.

No doubt here, Sheppard West to East appears it will be a subway as it ought to be. But there are certainly rumours LRT is not out of the question for Sheppard somewhere, which implies… something. We won’t know till we know.

I find it best to at least humour rumours when they ‘warn’ of a more conservative outcome, because it’s a reminder things can be scaled back at any time, and often are.

At the opposite end, sometimes things are scaled up for the sake of politics. “A subway to Pickering” is vague but can mean a few different things:

1. Ford means GO RER on LSE, which is effectively a subway for the burbs.

2. He means the MTO’s “Interregional LRT” long-term project. So not actionable within his tenure, just window dressing.

3. Line 4 becomes a comprehensive project beyond McCowan, supplanting the Eglinton East portion via Sheppard, going all the way to Pickering Centre somehow. A political gamble for sure. An LRT makes more sense in the east if it goes this far.

4. Ford’s just saying things with no real meaning behind them. The promise is worth more than the premise.

Anyway, this should merely be an exercise in illustrating the ambiguity we are constantly dealing with. There is no one way to interpret statements and sentiments until we have concrete plans.

 

[Undead]

Every subway ever built was for political reasons.

Not accurate. The original Yonge and Bloor streetcar lines were at capacity when they were replaced with subways.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

Not accurate. The original Yonge and Bloor streetcar lines were at capacity when they were replaced with subways.

I'll give you Yonge, but there was a serious debate about Bloor vs Queen for the second subway.

 

[Sunnyside]

I'll give you Yonge, but there was a serious debate about Bloor vs Queen for the second subway.

Yeah, it seems it was politics that chose the former and stopped the latter, but they both had a basis.

 

[urbancog]

No doubt here, Sheppard West to East appears it will be a subway as it ought to be

Based on Metrolinx's site, the word "Subway" can imply a number of different rolling stock technologies:

Low-floor LRVs, "Light Metro", traditional subway vehicles, traditional subway vehicles.

 

[sixrings]

No doubt here, Sheppard West to East appears it will be a subway as it ought to be. But there are certainly rumours LRT is not out of the question for Sheppard somewhere, which implies… something. We won’t know till we know.

I find it best to at least humour rumours when they ‘warn’ of a more conservative outcome, because it’s a reminder things can be scaled back at any time, and often are.

At the opposite end, sometimes things are scaled up for the sake of politics. “A subway to Pickering” is vague but can mean a few different things:

1. Ford means GO RER on LSE, which is effectively a subway for the burbs.

2. He means the MTO’s “Interregional LRT” long-term project. So not actionable within his tenure, just window dressing.

3. Line 4 becomes a comprehensive project beyond McCowan, supplanting the Eglinton East portion via Sheppard, going all the way to Pickering Centre somehow. A political gamble for sure. An LRT makes more sense in the east if it goes this far.

4. Ford’s just saying things with no real meaning behind them. The promise is worth more than the premise.

Anyway, this should merely be an exercise in illustrating the ambiguity we are constantly dealing with. There is no one way to interpret statements and sentiments until we have concrete plans.

RER is only essentially a subway if the fares are the same. Spoiler alert… they won’t be.

 

[chrisw]

Based on Metrolinx's site, the word "Subway" can imply a number of different rolling stock technologies:
View attachment 509580
Low-floor LRVs, "Light Metro", traditional subway vehicles, traditional subway vehicles.

But what about Metrolinx's definition of extension? Or subway extension?

 

[urbancog]

Yes, the current extensions utilize the existing technologies. But in my back-of-an-envelope transit planning world Sheppard gets extensions to both McCowen and YYZ and adopts a technology that's closer to the proposed light metro of the extended Ontario Line than the technology currently in use.

Including sharing track into YYZ.

 

[EnviroTO]

People put way too much focus on categorizations of rail vehicles. What matters are the measures (capacity / hour, speed, capital cost, operating cost, station catchment area population, station spacing) and to some degree customer experience (comfort, decor, ambience). Why does it matter if something is a tram, LRV, metro, train, etc if the measures and customer experience are similar?? If someone put in 2-car Shinkansen trainsets on the Queen Streetcar line and put in a platform that required one step up unless you push the accessibility button and had similar seating and capacity, same speed, etc... it would be no better than the streetcar other than some useless coolness factor.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Yes, the current extensions utilize the existing technologies. But in my back-of-an-envelope transit planning world Sheppard gets extensions to both McCowen and YYZ and adopts a technology that's closer to the proposed light metro of the extended Ontario Line than the technology currently in use.
View attachment 509612Including sharing track into YYZ.

With all the politics involved this is probably a pipe dream but I’d love to see it!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Where else would LRT supposedly go then? If it’s being looked at presumably they see some stretches of Sheppard where it’s appropriate. If not the planned E/W extensions, then where? Beyond these?

Kipling
Warden
Jane
Kennedy
Markham Rd

So many corridors for LRT.

 

[sixrings]

Kipling
Warden
Jane
Kennedy
Markham Rd

So many corridors for LRT.

Lawrence.

 

[Undead]

Lawrence.

And Finch east.

 

[afransen]

RER is only essentially a subway if the fares are the same. Spoiler alert… they won’t be.

This is kind of crazy. Subway is more defined by technology and service, not pricing structure. Does Line 1 to Vaughan stop being a subway if we introduce zone fares that cost more from Vaughan than Downsview to dt?

 

[sixrings]

This is kind of crazy. Subway is more defined by technology and service, not pricing structure. Does Line 1 to Vaughan stop being a subway if we introduce zone fares that cost more from Vaughan than Downsview to dt?

Fare structure is part of the reason STC was adamant they got a subway not a GO branch. There’s plenty of people which also factor in price with their transit service. Yes the RER could be super fast to get to the financial district but at what cost and how much is a transfer if the person doesn’t want to go specifically to the financial district.