Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)

[reaperexpress]

Don't remember how far we walk from the airport check-in to the airplane gates? Would be shorter.

I'm not saying it's impossible to walk that far, but the entire premise of a bypass is that it is more convenient than the alternatives. If you have to walk five minutes from the Kitchener line to the Midtown line, then what are the odds that it's actually faster than the Eglinton line?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm not saying it's impossible to walk that far, but the entire premise of a bypass is that it is more convenient than the alternatives. If you have to walk five minutes from the Kitchener line to the Midtown line, then what are the odds that it's actually faster than the Eglinton line?

Never walked from Line 1's Spadina Station to Line 2's Spadina Station?

 

[robmausser]

The problem is that the Midtown Line is not at Annette street, it's at the West Toronto Diamond and there's no room to build platforms there anymore, nor would there be any convenient way of accessing them from the surrounding neighbourhood.

And besides, Kitchener Line passengers bypassing downtown Toronto would be better off transferring to Line 5 at Mount Dennis station.

Passengers heading specifically to North Toronto could potentially be served by routing the proposed Bolton GO service to North Toronto (Summerhill) station. In addition to providing a convenient connection to North Toronto from the Ontario Line or Kitchener line (via Mount Dennis), it also avoids increasing congestion in the Union Station Rail Corridor.
View attachment 385355

Id love to see somoene make a nice map like this but of the new Ontario Line proposal.

I know we have the 2051 map from the government but its a complicated mess, id love to see just the proposed finished Ontario Line route with none of the other lines (or maybe just greyed out and muted)

 

[Northern Light]

The problem is that the Midtown Line is not at Annette street, it's at the West Toronto Diamond and there's no room to build platforms there anymore, nor would there be any convenient way of accessing them from the surrounding neighbourhood.

To be clear, I'm not going to debate the merits of the ideas above at all (cost, convenience, time etc). Far too hypothetical for my liking at this juncture. There is no Ontario Line at all, yet; and none seriously contemplated west of Exhibition. Still.....
Indulge me, please.

Assuming one were envisioning running the O/L within the Kitchener Corridor above or below grade:

I will put in for the idea that a station at Dupont/Annette on roughly the original site does appear feasible at first blush (room for station and building).

The southern extent of my line is the Dupont underpass, and I've taken it north to where the space available for a platform gets ever smaller. You get a about 268M of potential platform/building, where the width is
generally in the range of 30M over what is mostly the footprint of the original station, between Old Weston Road and the curving track.

Here's an archival image of the original station building:

Credit offered in-line, taken from : https://www.trha.ca/trha/history/stations/west-toronto-station-canadian-pacific-railway/

Total distance between a platform at the original site, and the mid-town line would be 80M (from the closest point) .

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Now, building a platform for the mid-town line is somewhat more constrained. I've assumed that would have to be at-grade with the current tracks.

If one draws a line from the Kitchener Corridor west to to the CP WB connection from Mactier to Galt, I think an 8M wide platform is viable, IF one can encroach on the tail end of Old Weston Road behind the City pumping station. (I'm assuming a northside only platform)

I get about 160M of length, assuming the platform is not extended across the tunnel; if it is then you're in the 230M platform length area before the Galt to Mactier West to North connection forms another barrier.

****

None of which is to say that its a good idea, the only reason I put in for its feasibility is a selfish desire to rebuild the original heritage station, and to suggest, even in fantasy threads, one shouldn't
prematurely rule out what's possible.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The old City of West Toronto Junction was home to several railway stations for several railroad lines. "Grand Trunk Railway of Canada", "Canadian Pacific Railway", "Ontario, Simcoe and Huron Rail Road", "Northern Railway of Canada", "The Toronto, Grey & Bruce Railway", and "Credit Valley Railway" were many of the railways that went through West Toronto, along with some stations.

See The Junction and Its Railways at this link for more information.

 

[JasonParis]

If you add the TTC to GO's new transfer-free fares (as has been done in the 905), it's even less of a concern if the Bolton line or potentially other lines run some trains to Midtown instead.

 

[fanoftoronto]

Gonna add my proposal for the Ontario Line West Extension!

Following the Lakeshore West line until the new Humber Bay Shores station, then veering over elevated on Queensway, up Kipling to get to the Kipling station to transfer with the Milton line, Line 2, and MiWay. Going elevated along the Hydro corridor to meet Line 5 at Martin Grove, then going over to Hwy 27-Dixon, and finally to Pearson Airport!

The huge gap between Etobicoke Centre station and Martin Grove-Eglinton is because it is purely residential between the 2 stations.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Gonna add my proposal for the Ontario Line West Extension!

View attachment 394259

Following the Lakeshore West line until the new Humber Bay Shores station, then veering over elevated on Queensway, up Kipling to get to the Kipling station to transfer with the Milton line, Line 2, and MiWay. Going elevated along the Hydro corridor to meet Line 5 at Martin Grove, then going over to Hwy 27-Dixon, and finally to Pearson Airport!

The huge gap between Etobicoke Centre station and Martin Grove-Eglinton is because it is purely residential between the 2 stations.

Im not seeing anyone taking much account of the Obico plan. I’ve been thinking QEW to Sherway and 427 to Renforth, all elevated, with a surface Bloor Danforth extension through the yard to connect at Queensway/QEW could go a long way to avoiding huge stretches of tunnelling in Etobicoke, awkward routing to access Kipling, missed destinations and the absolute joy that is working with Hydro corridors. Given Toronto I’d also think that elevating in highway corridors is probably a lot more politically doable than through residential Etobicoke.

 

[fanoftoronto]

Im not seeing anyone taking much account of the Obico plan. I’ve been thinking QEW to Sherway and 427 to Renforth, all elevated, with a surface Bloor Danforth extension through the yard to connect at Queensway/QEW could go a long way to avoiding huge stretches of tunnelling in Etobicoke, awkward routing to access Kipling, missed destinations and the absolute joy that is working with Hydro corridors. Given Toronto I’d also think that elevating in highway corridors is probably a lot more politically doable than through residential Etobicoke.

That's definitely a viable plan for the OL West and Line 2 extensions. Though, I believe the new development at Sherway Gardens is going to build a rough-in station for the future Line 2 extension there. We'd have both the OL and Line 2 extension serving this area which is definitely more capacity than is ever required.

The reason I'm advocating for the crossover between OL and Line 2 to happen at Kipling Station is because the area is designated as Etobicoke City Centre and Kipling Station has direct connection to GO trains/buses, MiWay, and TTC at the same time. Not to mention the future Dundas Street BRT is supposed to link up to Kipling Station as well.

Another alternative would be for the line to veer left after Kipling station to go on Dundas West until 427, then follow 427 up to the airport. This would avoid the Hydro corridor and having to convince NIMBYs to accept an elevated line through their neighborhood.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Another alternative would be for the line to veer left after Kipling station to go on Dundas West until 427, then follow 427 up to the airport. This would avoid the Hydro corridor and having to convince NIMBYs to accept an elevated line through their neighborhood.

I will say that I strongly suspect that Obico, Dundas, 427 is more viable than the Hydro ROW if the OL is to go through Kipling.

I also have real doubts that there is a realistic prospect of a Line 2 Sherway extension in the near future. My understanding of the development plans is that it is only corridor protection occurring, not any kind of meaningful "rough in".

 

[UrbanDan]

Gonna add my proposal for the Ontario Line West Extension!

View attachment 394259

Following the Lakeshore West line until the new Humber Bay Shores station, then veering over elevated on Queensway, up Kipling to get to the Kipling station to transfer with the Milton line, Line 2, and MiWay. Going elevated along the Hydro corridor to meet Line 5 at Martin Grove, then going over to Hwy 27-Dixon, and finally to Pearson Airport!

The huge gap between Etobicoke Centre station and Martin Grove-Eglinton is because it is purely residential between the 2 stations.

Not a bad proposal!

To me this proposal makes equal sense as for OL to go North after High Park along South Kingsway and then Jane. On the one hand, Queensway has a lot of potential for population growth (why your suggestion makes perfect sense). On the other hand, Jane corridor is already overcrowded and should have higher order transit. Maybe in a perfect world OL would follow your alignment and Jane LRT would conect to it just south-west of High Park.

I have few suggestions for the map:
1. Maybe, insted of station being at St. Joseph's hospital, it should be closer to Roncesvalles, where more people live and where are more options to connect to a streetcar
2. High Park South should be slightly moved to the west, as there is were the most density is being built in the Swansea area.
3. Perhaps it would make sense for Queensway to have two stops

Just my two cents...

 

[afransen]

Im not seeing anyone taking much account of the Obico plan. I’ve been thinking QEW to Sherway and 427 to Renforth, all elevated, with a surface Bloor Danforth extension through the yard to connect at Queensway/QEW could go a long way to avoiding huge stretches of tunnelling in Etobicoke, awkward routing to access Kipling, missed destinations and the absolute joy that is working with Hydro corridors. Given Toronto I’d also think that elevating in highway corridors is probably a lot more politically doable than through residential Etobicoke.

Not to mention there is quite a bit of density along the 427 that could benefit from rapid transit access.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Maybe in a perfect world OL would follow your alignment and Jane LRT would conect to it just south-west of High Park.

As much as Toronto doesn’t do branches, this is a place I’m inclined to think it might be a good idea. Build to Etbicoke and the Airport isn’t the near term, but plan for a High Park / Keel branch to at least Mount Dennis (I’m still inclined to support surface LRT on Jane north of Eglinton, but there’s nothing about this that forces the OL to end there).

 

[fanoftoronto]

Not a bad proposal!

To me this proposal makes equal sense as for OL to go North after High Park along South Kingsway and then Jane. On the one hand, Queensway has a lot of potential for population growth (why your suggestion makes perfect sense). On the other hand, Jane corridor is already overcrowded and should have higher order transit. Maybe in a perfect world OL would follow your alignment and Jane LRT would conect to it just south-west of High Park.

I have few suggestions for the map:
1. Maybe, insted of station being at St. Joseph's hospital, it should be closer to Roncesvalles, where more people live and where are more options to connect to a streetcar
2. High Park South should be slightly moved to the west, as there is were the most density is being built in the Swansea area.
3. Perhaps it would make sense for Queensway to have two stops

Just my two cents...

I will say that I strongly suspect that Obico, Dundas, 427 is more viable than the Hydro ROW if the OL is to go through Kipling.

I also have real doubts that there is a realistic prospect of a Line 2 Sherway extension in the near future. My understanding of the development plans is that it is only corridor protection occurring, not any kind of meaningful "rough in".

Good suggestions. I've updated the image with an alternate routing through Etobicoke. St Joseph's station moved to Roncesvalles, High Park South station renamed and moved to Windermere, Queensway updated with 2 stations, routing north to ECC moved over through the Obico yard, routing from ECC changed to Dundas - 427 route to avoid the Hydro corridor, Line 5 intersection moved to Renforth to connect with MiWay again. The only problem I see with this is that the routing to the airport is duplicated with the Line 5 extension. I've routed to go to Dixon-Hwy 27 before going to the Pearson airport.

Any more improvement suggestions are welcomed, I'm having fun with making this map!

Also, I'm taking name suggestions for the stations. I don't like names like Kipling South or Rathburn!

Edit: I realize my routing from Renforth to Dixon/Hwy 27 is simply non-sensical and going through many buildings! Sorry about that!

 

[Ciarlandini]

Wondering what the split is of those in this forum that prefer the line up some combination of Keele-Dufferin or Jane as opposed to the western approach- I certainly think it would alleviate more issues.