kEiThZ
Superstar
Will the reduced corporate income tax and the reduction in the small business clawback not help?
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Ontario Budget 2009
- Thread starter waterloowarrior
- Start date
Will the reduced corporate income tax and the reduction in the small business clawback not help?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Your numbers are deceiving. Most of that highway spending is going to northern and rural areas. Only 219 million over 6 years is dedicated towards highway spending in southern ontario. Whereas, I am willing to bet that most of that transit cash will be going to cities in southern ontario.
Very likely. It is likely that there'll still be cash for most of it. At the very minimum this should get Metrolinx moving on that whole funding issue. They've been putting that off for far too long now.
afransen
Senior Member
Well, the bigger point is that this is good for the economy. Lower corporate tax rates (cut in half over 4 years) will stimulate investment in Ontario, which should raise productivity and wages. Don't look at this in such a vacuum. What's important is that the tax system is becoming much more efficient. Even if we do pay more tax, I support this move to improve Ontario's attractiveness to investment.
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ Agreed. This is a pretty good budget for Ontario. Particularly given the challenges we face right now and in the years to come.
It's also fairly conservative (scaling back the civil service for example) without resorting to the Mike Harris style meanness (chop welfare to balance the books). Looking at this budget it also seems like the Liberals have become the most simultaneously progressive and conservative party in the province.
It's also fairly conservative (scaling back the civil service for example) without resorting to the Mike Harris style meanness (chop welfare to balance the books). Looking at this budget it also seems like the Liberals have become the most simultaneously progressive and conservative party in the province.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Keithz:
Scaling back the civil service doesn't mean you're spending less in running the government - in fact, what it does translate to is increased use of temps and consultants, the latter of which is never cheap (nor necessarily on the money in whatever they're consulting).
AoD
Scaling back the civil service doesn't mean you're spending less in running the government - in fact, what it does translate to is increased use of temps and consultants, the latter of which is never cheap (nor necessarily on the money in whatever they're consulting).
AoD
kEiThZ
Superstar
I meant it as an example of his fiscal restraint in a downturn. One would hope that in due time the cuts will be reversed. What is good news, is that the 5% cut is over three years and through natural attrition.
As for hiring consultants and temps, I would hope the Ontario civil service could handle a 5% higher workload for a few years and not compel the government to spend too much on outside help.
nfitz
Superstar
Hang on ... we just reduced the lowest tax bracket exactly 1% from 6.05% to 5.05% ... but we can't afford to reduce it to 5.00%?
Your kidding right? Are you just trying to be contrary here?
If it was such a big detail you could change the tax bracket boundary by $20 or so to make up for it, and make it revenue neutral
kEiThZ
Superstar
I am sure that 0.05% on a large tax base would amount to millions. As for the $20 bracket change, now wouldn't that screw up somebody's idea of more rounded bracket numbers?
lordmandeep
Banned
isn't dividends like 18.111116% or some funny rate like that...
Well I hate tax hikes however the outrage is nowhere near the health tax so it appears Dalton may escape a 2nd time.
If Dalton wants to get more popular, he should get all those infrastructure plans in the ground now.
I really like the 4% reduction in business taxes, that should help.
However I doubt the Tories could run on deharmonizing the tax (Federal Govt would be Pissed)
Well I hate tax hikes however the outrage is nowhere near the health tax so it appears Dalton may escape a 2nd time.
If Dalton wants to get more popular, he should get all those infrastructure plans in the ground now.
I really like the 4% reduction in business taxes, that should help.
However I doubt the Tories could run on deharmonizing the tax (Federal Govt would be Pissed)
afransen
Senior Member
On your last point, I'm not sure that progressiveness should be antithetical to sound economic management. The size of the welfare state, in terms of the social goals it hopes to achieve are one thing (what I would call progressivity), while implementing it in a manner that causes least harm to the economy, wealth and environment is another decision that basically amounts to funding and implementing that welfare state in a competent and efficient manner. That isn't conservatism. That's just basic competence. It's good to see some of that in our provincial, and even to some extent federal governments (despite the huge blunder of reducing the GST, the substantial reductions in corporate income tax are welcome). It's why I support things like single payer health insurance (to help avoid the insanity of the million paper pushers that work in the US HMO system), guaranteed annual income/negative income tax rather than welfare, EI, disability, etc.
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Whoaccio
Senior Member
Sort of o/t, but has anybody noticed that over the last few years, especially with the recession, Don Drummond has taken on almost sex-symbol qualities? I never remember "bank economist" being a particularly exciting job, almost up there with estate planning on the scale of soulless white collar jobs, but now everybody and their mother is trying to get Drummond to comment on economics and its public policy implications.
nfitz
Superstar
??? Before the budget, the 2009 brackets were (as far as I know) 36,848 and 73,698. It's not like they are rounded now. Ignoring the surtax changes, the drop from 6.05% to 5.05% would drop someone's tax by $179.40 (say income of about $50,000 or over - assuming my spreadsheet is correct) Had they gone to 5%, it would have dropped another $8.36. Are you trying to tell me that the Ontario government can afford $179.40 - but he last $8.36 is too much?
H
Hydrogen
Guest
As someone who once was a consultant in Ottawa, no, we didn't come cheap. But then again, individual or contract consultants are also self-employed, live contract to contract, have to contribute to their own retirement plan (no federal public service retirement package for them), pay both the employer and employee portions of CPP, and had to live with contract termination clauses that could put you out of work pretty much instantly. And we had to perform.
MisterF
Senior Member
Who cares? What exactly does having a nice round number accomplish?
cacruden
Senior Member
When they implemented the HST, they did so at a rate that was lower than the previous tax. From what I understand, they will go to a 8% HST which will just be a wider tax (not revenue neutral). Well, I plan to get some renovations (small) done early this year, and then I won't consider anything for at least 10 years after - it will cost 8% more
I am also wondering how this will affect what I can bill.... since I have generally just done work on contract for the last 7 years....