OneCity Plan

[TheTigerMaster]

The west end of the Finch West LRT is at Humber College, which is located near the western border of the city.

The east end of the Sheppard East LRT should be at the Toronto Zoo, which is located near the eastern border of the city.

That's one. Public transit coverage from west to east.

Having the LRT get to the zoo would increase the number of people going to the zoo, especially those without cars.

That's two. More people will get on the LRT if there is reason and a way for them to use it.

Having a stop at the zoo if its along the line is okay but I can't say I agree with having a whole branch going to it. I would love to see ridership numbers for a possible zoo branch. I'm almost certain that busses would easily be able to accommodate it.

 

[doady]

The zoo is really on the fringe of not just Toronto proper, but also the urban areaboundary itself. It is literally surrounded by farms and parkland. And it currently has limited bus service. Is there demand for LRT to the zoo everyday, all year around round? I don't see it.

It's an example of the problems of these plans. They aren't motivated by demand or need. Just politics. Note the lack of a Dundas LRT or East Mall extension. What about LRT into Durham along Highway 2? It's a patchwork plan, a new plan grafted onto much of the existing, and it's still really insular. At least there is that Waterfront West LRT into Mississauga though. It's exactly the same as how I drew it on my fantasy map.

 

[Jaye101]

I agree that the Zoo is on the fringe of Toronto, but I can understand the need for a higher order of transit to this location. The Zoo is a really undervalued asset of Toronto and I think that this can really help support it's development and the development of the surroundings. Especially considering it's proximity to where the Sheppard East LRT is going to.

What I don't understand is the lack of a western DRL to Eglinton. Downtown really needs a through line... Though I believe that Metrolinx plan to divert Georgetown from Union will end up being combined with an Eastern DRL, but why not put it into the plan from the get go.

What also strikes me as stupid is this Waterfront West LRT. Why would an LRT route go from Union station into Mississauga? Does that really make sense? Why not start the WWLRT from Roncy Station on a western DRL. With an Electrified Lakeshore corridor, combined with the eventuality of a western DRL, we'd just end up with redundant service. It would also make more sense to serve Mississauga with a route that goes to a subway that runs along a dense corridor than down a corridor that already has service from Mississauga that doesn't have much density along the route.

While the framework of One City is progressive, it's still not that well thought out. However, I truly believe that most of these details will be ironed out during the study periods.

 

[CanadianNational]

I figure with the Zoo stop:

Toronto's transit system is deeply non-intuitive, and thus an consistent sustainer of deep-rooted discontents. Unlike a lot of major cities, our subway system is not built to bend to major destinations, landmarks or notable neighbourhoods.
A stop at an attraction or notable place is intuitive, pleasure giving, and ups the perceived value and user-friendliness of the whole system. It's like working with a mouse, or a touch-screen on a computer, instead of having to type in machine language commands.
The OneCity Plan would give us stops at the Science Centre, the Zoo, the airport (and, perhaps even Exhibition Place and more). It would show that transit is humanely woven into the city and thus get a more affectionate response than if it just proceeded mechanistically. Who takes transit happily, when it just kind of gets you sort of near where you want to go? Especially in bad weather.

The Zoo isn't so far from Morningside drive that it'd be a horrible expense to extend the LRT line there. It also has a nice big parking lot, which would be a good place to put an LRT loop to turn around on. Ultimately, the percieved ease of use and friendliness of the system (right brain) could translate overall into better ridership far and above the amount of people that actually just take the train from Morningside to the Zoo (left brain).

Just my two cents worth.

 

[innsertnamehere]

LRTs don't need loops...

 

[W. K. Lis]

I figure with the Zoo stop:

Toronto's transit system is deeply non-intuitive, and thus an consistent sustainer of deep-rooted discontents. Unlike a lot of major cities, our subway system is not built to bend to major destinations, landmarks or notable neighbourhoods.
A stop at an attraction or notable place is intuitive, pleasure giving, and ups the perceived value and user-friendliness of the whole system. It's like working with a mouse, or a touch-screen on a computer, instead of having to type in machine language commands.
The OneCity Plan would give us stops at the Science Centre, the Zoo, the airport (and, perhaps even Exhibition Place and more). It would show that transit is humanely woven into the city and thus get a more affectionate response than if it just proceeded mechanistically. Who takes transit happily, when it just kind of gets you sort of near where you want to go? Especially in bad weather.

The Zoo isn't so far from Morningside drive that it'd be a horrible expense to extend the LRT line there. It also has a nice big parking lot, which would be a good place to put an LRT loop to turn around on. Ultimately, the percieved ease of use and friendliness of the system (right brain) could translate overall into better ridership far and above the amount of people that actually just take the train from Morningside to the Zoo (left brain).

Just my two cents worth.

Rapid transit should bend to serve or terminate at destinations where people want and need to go to. That is why I think OneCity's plan for the Don Mills Express/Downtown Relief Line should not just end at the Yonge Subway, but serve the University Subway/Financial District and especially Exhibition Place.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

2) Why Torontonians will support transit expansion but won't back it up by supporting tax increases that go DIRECTLY into these expansions. If you don't pay more into the collective money pot, you won't get better transit/services. Simple as that. I recognize that the federal and provincial governments need to smarten up about transit and give more funding for it, but in the meantime the best we can do is tax Torontonians to expand our transit. I'm sick of Torontonians acting like their taxes are outrageously high. They are not.

Then prevent the crazy politicians and bureaucrats from potentially dipping their hands into the OneCity money pot for other items. If you can do that, you will see strong support for this plan

 

[rbt]

Then prevent the crazy politicians and bureaucrats from potentially dipping their hands into the OneCity money pot for other items. If you can do that, you will see strong support for this plan

Toronto already puts 3 to 4 times as much money into the TTC per year. Property taxes currently cover about $320M/year in operations subsidy and another ~$300M/year in capital subsidy either directly or to pay existing debt which went to TTC SOGR projects. SOGR isn't expansion but you could argue that new subway trains and streetcars could fall under this "expansion" fund.

TTC receives funds via property taxes indirectly too; roughly $50M went through waterfront Toronto for Union station.

The real risk is shifting the general revenue tools currently going to the TTC to other projects will be manouvered elsewhere; possibly creating a net-decrease in funding for the TTC despite this dedicated fund.

I don't believe this council would allow this manouver to occur but I cannot predict what 2014 will bring. A housing crash and/or US recession (every 7 to 8 years; 2007 was the start of the last) could rapidly renew the voters distaste for new spending.

IMO, new spending specifically in public transit is exactly what we need to grow the economy but Canadian voters seldom vote for their long-term best interests.

 

[noctis]

I apologize in advance if this has already been answered, to lazy to go back and read all the pages, but what exactly is an TTC Inrail Corridor? On the plan it says that it will have 2 new express lines (Scarborough and Etobicoke)...so is it a train like VIA or LRT or ???

Personally I think the Don Mills Express Subway is an awesome idea and was hoping they do they same for the two express lines mentioned above...

 

[someMidTowner]

I apologize in advance if this has already been answered, to lazy to go back and read all the pages, but what exactly is an TTC Inrail Corridor?

I think InRail corridors refer to already existing surface rail lines that could be easily converted to run TTC trains

 

[Jaye101]

I believe they'd be more like electrified commuter trains with pantograph wiring, than a heavy rail ttc subway train.

 

[flonicky]

The Zoo isn't so far from Morningside drive that it'd be a horrible expense to extend the LRT line there. It also has a nice big parking lot, which would be a good place to put an LRT loop to turn around on.

It would also provide direct access to Rouge Park. The Rouge conservation centre is right across from the zoo and the park is about to receive significant investment over the next decade.

 

[doady]

What also strikes me as stupid is this Waterfront West LRT. Why would an LRT route go from Union station into Mississauga? Does that really make sense? Why not start the WWLRT from Roncy Station on a western DRL. With an Electrified Lakeshore corridor, combined with the eventuality of a western DRL, we'd just end up with redundant service. It would also make more sense to serve Mississauga with a route that goes to a subway that runs along a dense corridor than down a corridor that already has service from Mississauga that doesn't have much density along the route.

Why stop the WW LRT in the middle of nowhere when light rail in its own ROW from Exhibition to Union already exists, and it would cost almost nothing to extend to Union?

The Lakeshore corridor (the street itself) has a lot of redevelopment potential in both Mississauga and Toronto. GO does not serve this corridor. Waterfront West the only LRT route in OneCity that actually makes sense.

 

[Rainforest]

Why stop the WW LRT in the middle of nowhere when light rail in its own ROW from Exhibition to Union already exists, and it would cost almost nothing to extend to Union?

The ROW exists, but it is surprisingly slow for a ROW. A trip from Exhibition to Union can easily take 25 min or more. Actually, that trip often takes longer than a trip on the mixed-traffic King streetcar. If you boarded LRT in the southern Etobicoke and have been on board for a while already, you don't want those 25 minutes added to your commute time.

Therefore, the current WW LRT plan includes a Bremner Blvd connection to Union, which is supposed to be partly underground, and reach Union much faster than the existing Queens Quay route.

However, another possible solution is to end WWLRT at a DRL West subway station in the Queen / Dufferin area. Of course, this solution is viable only if and when DRL West reaches that location. The subway can take you from Queen / Dufferin to Yonge in 6 - 8 min dependent on the stop spacing.

 

[ssiguy2]

In general the ideas behind the plan are sound.

It connects the Stubway to Spadina and whether you agree with that or not the reality is that the Stubway will be getting much, much busier when the LRTs and Spadina ext are complete. They have to do something with the connectivity along Sheppard and make that section seemless. It also has to be subway for the obvious reason that they would have to build and entire new LRT garage for that tiny 5km stretch.

It finally uses some of Toronto existing transportation infrastructure of the current rail corridors.

It acknowledges that there is a need for speed for intercity travel with frequent service but without the GO fare prices.

It acknowleges that there are real concerns about pollution along the Georgetown corridor. While I am not very empathetic for people who complain about the noise or pollution near rail lines when the lines were already there when they choose to move to the area, I can understand their concern. Right now they tolerate the Georgetown line as they damn well should. That, however, is changing as the number of diesel trains going by due to increase in GO services and the Airport Link will make the situation fairly intolerable and potentially hazardous and when people's health begins to be effected then the line has to be drawn. During rush hour that corridor will see near subway frequency with all the noise and pollution associated with it. Electrifying the line and making it standard TTC subway service not only makes the route much quieter and less polluting but also actually provides service for them. The only thing worse than having diesel trains go by every 4 minutes is knowing that eventhough you have a transit pass you still can't take any of them.

It acknowledges that that Torontonians cannot ask other levels of government to pay for things that they refuse to pay for.

It acknowleges that, contrary to what both Miller and Ford believe, there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" technology.

If there is one thing I would do to not only save money but also time and make transfers easier is to realign the Kennedy mess. I would not have the Eglinton LRT swing up to STC but rather have it continue further east to atleast Kingston. I would can the Kennedy subway up Midland and instead INTERLINE the Kennedy and express route up to Ellesemere from Kennedy and then have the Express line continue north and the B/D line head east to STC. It would save a lot of money and time.

As I stated before thou, if Torontonians will want to see shovels in the ground the very same day the tax begins to take effect so Torontonians won't see this as just another tax grab going into the slush fund but also that there are firm deadlines on all the routes so Torontonians know exactly what they are getting and by when.