OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[Automation Gallery]

I guess Mississauga, Markham, Richmond Hill, and Vaughan are all probably keeping their fingers crossed that this whole downtown Toronto Casino thing becomes one big clown show between pro and anti-Casino councilors and residents and gets shot down.

 

[gweed123]

I think the Oxford proposal doesn't necessarily hinge on the casino, I just think the casino changes the proposal from being moderately profitable to being very profitable.

And I seriously think a lot of these 'doom and gloom' predictions from casino opponents won't come true. The area around the Casino du Lac Leamy, just minutes from downtown Ottawa, didn't turn into a crapshoot when the casino opened. On the contrary, it actually made the area better.

And there are many other 'blights' on society that we as a group tolerate. Should we be banning new bars or clubs from opening up in the Entertainment District because they promote drinking and may be an issue for problem drinkers? Heck no.

I understand the arguments to the effect of 'Casinos will just encourage problem gamblers to continue to gamble'. Yes, that may be true, but I'll also venture to say that most of those 'problem gamblers' are already getting their fix somewhere else, be it Woodbine, Casino Rama, or Niagara Falls.

I'll admit it, I like to occasionally gamble. I drive over to the casino in Hull a couple times a year and do dinner, drinks, and a bit of gambling. I also occasionally do the same thing at the Rideau Carleton Racetrack Slots (Ottawa's equivalent of Woodbine). I enjoy it. And as a responsible adult, I think I'm allowed to enjoy that. And there were a couple times when I was in Toronto where I would have liked to have gone to a casino, taken $40, and seen what happened. At the very least, it would have been a good night out.

As for the argument of "it's just a money pit", I look at it this way: it's entertainment. It's a night out, and it's an experience. People pay far more money to see worse odds of winning: it's called going to a Leafs game.

 

[CanadianNational]

Ford must have chipped a tooth trying to spit out the word 'Union' in a positive-seeming context. I'm surprised he did it. Pleasantly, rather.

 

[canmark]

680 News: MGM CEO to present vision for casino complex in Toronto

The CEO and Chairman of MGM Resorts International is expected to present his vision for a new casino complex in Toronto, just as public consultations on the subject begin to wrap up.

Jim Murren is speaking to the Economic Club of Canada over lunch, Tuesday, at the Hilton on Richmond Street.

The city manager is set to report to council in March on the public’s feedback on a possible casino within Toronto’s borders.

Public consultations on the subject will end on Friday, while council is expected to vote on the matter in April.

Global's Jackson Proskow on Twitter: MGMs sales pitch includes partnerships with Cirque du Soleil, chef Mark McEwen. Preference is for 2-4bln resort at exhibition place.

 

[johnwood]

Why do the city councilors want Toronto to be boring?

 

[TOareaFan]

Why do the city councilors want Toronto to be boring?

I think, in this case, councilors of all political stripes have been clear that they will take their directive from the community.....so if, in your mind, "no casino" = "boring" it may be your neighbours' wishes rather than councils which is boring you

 

[canmark]

Toronto Star: Odds of a casino being built in Toronto? 50-50, MGM chief says

MGM Resorts is betting the city of Toronto has “no better than” a 50-50 chance of approving a casino, Murren told a Global TV show earlier Tuesday.

“If it doesn’t happen here there will be one somewhere in Ontario,” he said during a press conference following the speech. “Our preference and the OLG’s preference is to be in Toronto.”

* * *

“If we were to invest $2 to $4 billion in Toronto we would employ thousands of people. The average income of the people we employ is over $60,000 a year,” he said.

It would take three years to build, employing thousands more people.

Toronto is one of the most attractive cities in North America to build one because of its highly diverse population, he said. “Many of them are already our guest at the Bellagio in Las Vegas,” he said, referring to one of MGM’s premier properties.

Other projects MGM is pursuing are much smaller, for example near Washington, D.C., where it plans to spend $800 million.

Within the city, Exhibition Place is one of the most desirable locations and one that could help revive Ontario Place if the economic benefits of the casino helped fund more parks, playgrounds and beaches, Murren told the Economic Club.

A win-win situation or a shell game? Free money or a con job? We know the casino is going to win, but what about the province, the city, businesses and residents?

 

[jaycola]

I think, in this case, councilors of all political stripes have been clear that they will take their directive from the community.....so if, in your mind, "no casino" = "boring" it may be your neighbours' wishes rather than councils which is boring you

That is a blatantly false statement as demonstrated by the actions of the opposing councilors at the first public consultation.

Toronto Sun

Downtown councillors hijack casino counsultation

TORONTO - Left-leaning councillors hijacked the city’s first public consultation meeting on a possible Toronto casino.

Councillor Gord Perks stood on a chair less than an hour into Wednesday’s three-hour meeting surrounded by several downtown councillors and apologized for the open-house format of the event.

“Unfortunately this consultation has left a little bit to be desired,” Perks told the crowd.

He encouraged people opposed to a casino to sign a petition and invited those wanting to discuss the prospect of establishing a gambling complex in Toronto to to come to a City Hall committee room.

“I apologize on behalf of this group of councillors,” Perks said surrounded by Councillors Adam Vaughan, Paula Fletcher, Pam McConnell, Mary Fragedakis, Sarah Doucette and Janet Davis. “We had hoped for a more lively discussion.”

Vaughan also climbed up on a chair and assured residents a Hogtown casino could be stopped.

“This fight can be won if the voice of the people is heard ... this city is our city and it is time for us to stand up and be heard,” said the anti-casino councillor.

Vaughan encouraged residents in the City Hall rotunda to indicate, by raising their hand, whether or not they support a casino.

“If you take the lobbyists out of the room, I think the ‘no casino’ won,” he said.

“Let the record show that the overwhelming majority of people that are here tonight oppose a casino in Toronto, don’t want this process to go forward and don’t approve of this consultation process.”

McConnell described the consultation as “chaotic”.

“This is not an exchange of views,” she said.

If behaving like this at a public consultation is taking the directive of their community, I fail to understand the meaning of the terms "public consultation", "directive" and "community".

Neither Adam Vaughan nor Gord Perks would vote for the casino even if a majority of their ward residents favoured the project. They are ideologically opposed to the casino and they know what is best for all residents of the city.

I just took a look at the ticket cost for an Opera this season at the Four Seasons. $284 for a single orchestra seat. Maybe we ought to have a means test for Opera go-ers to ensure that the cost of this performance will not put undo harm on the finances of the family? An obsessive opera fan could presumably waste thousands of dollars per year on this entertainment without the slightest potential to recoup their losses. Maybe the opera is causing unnecessary harm to families....
Do you know, those same individuals might be frequenting the Toronto Symphony and Ballet too...ooh the horror...

 

[canmark]

That is a blatantly false statement as demonstrated by the actions of the opposing councilors at the first public consultation.
I just took a look at the ticket cost for an Opera this season at the Four Seasons. $284 for a single orchestra seat. Maybe we ought to have a means test for Opera go-ers to ensure that the cost of this performance will not put undo harm on the finances of the family? An obsessive opera fan could presumably waste thousands of dollars per year on this entertainment without the slightest potential to recoup their losses. Maybe the opera is causing unnecessary harm to families....
Do you know, those same individuals might be frequenting the Toronto Symphony and Ballet too...ooh the horror...

Since you bring up the Arts, perhaps the question might be, do we want to model ourselves on the cities that support the Arts and which have the great orchestras and great opera companies--such as New York and London? Or do we want to model ourselves on the cities with great casinos--such as Las Vegas or Macau?

Money that is spent on the Arts goes to support working artists, musicians, singers, actors, designers, writers, directors, etc. and enriches peoples lives--as the Arts has done since the beginning of human civilization.

Gambling at casinos provides entertainment, but not much more. It supports workers who are blackjack dealers, pit bosses, cocktail waitresses, bartenders, valets and security guards, yes, but are those the kinds of jobs we want for our city?

 

[Automation Gallery]

that they will take their directive from the community.....

I dont buy that....the no side
is always more vocal

 

[Automation Gallery]

Money that is spent on the Arts goes to support working artists, musicians, singers, actors, designers, writers, directors, etc. and enriches peoples lives--as the Arts has done since the beginning of human civilization.

Gambling at casinos provides entertainment, but not much more. It supports workers who are blackjack dealers, pit bosses, cocktail waitresses, bartenders, valets and security guards,
are those the kinds of jobs we want for our city?

Sure, that second group of workers, bring a lot less baggage to city finances

 

[MetroMan]

I typically lean left but I have always supported the casino. The revenue for the city is exaggerated but so are the fears of gambling related crime.

The fact that a developer is willing to invest billions into the city is an incredible opportunity. Vaughan, Perks, Layton, McConnell, etc are giving up their hand to transform this into something good while pursuing the No vote. Instead of fighting against the casino alltogether -- which **will** be built somewhere in the GTA -- they could be fighting to lay out the conditions on which the city would agree to being home to a casino.

Guaranteed transit and road infrastructure investments to accommodate visitors to the casino could be negotiated. This would mean a DRL and even the very reasonable expectation that the Province upload and improve the Gardiner Expressway. It's already a regional transportation asset, this would even further that case. Another deal that could be made is for the OPP to take jurisdiction around the casino and a gambling related crime taskforce so that the Toronto Police isn't weighted with those new costs.

The OLG wants badly to build a casino here. Lets make them show that they mean it. We may not get hundreds of millions in ongoing revenue but we will without doubt get major infrastructure investments from both the casino operator and the province -- if we stop fighting this and instead fight for a good deal.

 

[jaycola]

That attitude that jobs created for artists add value while jobs where people have to work hard in less glamorous circumstances add none is simply elitist. There are plenty in this city who would love a full time job picking cigarette butts out of the ashtrays in a casino who could not take a job as an actor if it was given to them. Regular people need jobs in this city, not just artists.

I was in Vegas and actually saw the Cirque show "Ka" at the MGM Crand. It was directed by Robert LePage(The Canadian).
While there we visited another Canadian friend who was Stage Managing "O", another Cirque show.

My wife happens to work in theatre, in fact she is in rehearsal right now, and do you know what she told me the other day? There is very little work right now for IATSE members in this city. These are theatre carpenters, electricians, sound and lighting professionals. The same can be said for costume designers and seamstresses, makeup and hair, house staff and concession staff and those who run the gift shops. There aren't a lot of big shows and the tourists aren't flocking to the city to see them any more.

I tend to believe that by far the majority of Casino/resort guests who come to the city will spread their tourist dollars over many different and varied entertainment options. Some will see concerts, both classical and modern, some will visit museums and go to the theatre and some will visit strip clubs and hire prostitutes, that's a fact of living in a big city. What they will also do is eat and shop in our neighbourhood shopping strips like College and the Danforth. They will take taxis and buy souvenirs and if we make their visit an enjoyable experiance, they will tell their friends and bring their families.

Some negative elements will no doubt arrive with the addition of a casino in our city but so will negative elements arrive with the 100,000 immigrants we add to the city every year. Maybe if we do what we can to employ these new arrivals, we will do more good for our city in the long run.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Vaughan, Perks, Layton, McConnell, etc are giving up their hand to transform this into something good while pursuing the No vote. Instead of fighting against the casino alltogether -- which **will** be built somewhere in the GTA -- they could be fighting to lay out the conditions on which the city would agree to being home to a casino.

The OLG wants badly to build a casino here. Lets make them show that they mean it. We may not get hundreds of millions in ongoing revenue but we will without doubt get major infrastructure investments from both the casino operator and the province -- if we stop fighting this and instead fight for a good deal.

I guess Mike Layton whos ward 20 includes Exhibition Place/Ontario Place, is also against the Casino plan for the area

Toronto casino: OLG proposal threatens to split council over location
Councillor Mike Layton, whose ward includes Ontario Place and Exhibition Place, doesn’t think either site can accommodate the parking needs of a casino.

“Are we going to build an underwater parking lot?” quipped Layton, who said he occasionally visits casinos and has seen the negative effect they can have on surrounding neighbourhoods.

“If you look around Detroit’s casino, I don’t think you’re going to say that’s a high-performing neighbourhood,” said Layton (Ward 19 Trinity-Spadina).
http://www.ward20.ca/news_article.php?article=936


Hey, —“You can't have your cake and eat it too”— .... Id say, dont expect good things to come from a revised Ontario Place (provincial lands),
if the province is dissed on this matter

 

[Automation Gallery]

Was the area in Detroit a high performing neighbourhood before the casino was built? If anything, it has helped
the area.

I agree, plus Detroit is a poor example to compare to Toronto