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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

Awesome. I'm using that, thanks. Lol. Very true. A casino may bring in some tourists (during the summer) but not enough (I don't think) to sacrifice an already developing waterfront neighbourhood that is a result of years of careful research and planning. A casino there would be a rush job and look hellish with a vast parking lot — land that would've gone to neighbourhoods, parks, bike trails, restaurants, skating rinks, beaches... If we are to get a casino, stick in in Etobicoke North where its biggest fan lives. ;o)

If this does get approved for Toronto, and it does come downtown they must bury the parking. One of the conditions must be no surface parking lots, bury several thousand spots for cars and an area for tour buses to park too.
 
Tell that to Vegas! I'm so fed up with these half brained city council members! Do he think the Mafia might come to Toronto, or major organized crime? Got news for you, they are already here! I think a casino, Vegas style, in the port lands would be terrific. It would create thousands of jobs, make hundreds of millions a year for the city, and draw thousands more tourists to our city. It's high time city council stopped acting like Toronto is an innocent small town, we're a major, international metropolis, worthy of all the attractions therein! We do not need these clowns (I didn't vote for any of them) who are completely out of touch stop Toronto from achieving its full potential. It's the very same people blocking several construction permits of super talls because it will cast a shadow, no kidding? Really? They're literally afraid of their own shadows? I'm sorry to be so offensive, but enough is enough, they haven't got a clue, yet they are the ones in charge?
 
Tell that to Vegas! I'm so fed up with these half brained city council members! Do he think the Mafia might come to Toronto, or major organized crime? Got news for you, they are already here! I think a casino, Vegas style, in the port lands would be terrific. It would create thousands of jobs, make hundreds of millions a year for the city, and draw thousands more tourists to our city. It's high time city council stopped acting like Toronto is an innocent small town, we're a major, international metropolis, worthy of all the attractions therein! We do not need these clowns (I didn't vote for any of them) who are completely out of touch stop Toronto from achieving its full potential. It's the very same people blocking several construction permits of super talls because it will cast a shadow, no kidding? Really? They're literally afraid of their own shadows? I'm sorry to be so offensive, but enough is enough, they haven't got a clue, yet they are the ones in charge?

Then again, maybe putting up a casino to simply drain citizens and some visitors of their cash represents a failure of the provincial government to properly invest in jobs and innovation in other sectors of the Ontario economy. A casino is a cheap and limited means of raising revenue at a time when the present government is out of ideas on how to help stimulate the economy. Sure, a casino would create jobs, but so would other forms of direct or indirect economic investment and policies focussed on growth. That casino might also suck people and business away from other parts of the city, which would likely result in job losses. As for supposedly generating hundreds of millions of dollars for the city, where is your business case? A casino exists to generate revenue for the province, and the proceeds are distributed across the province. Those "proceeds" will primarily originate from Ontario taxpayers (many from Toronto) and not planeloads of tourists hungry to gamble in Toronto. Other forms of tourism investment could easily generate jobs and revenue for the city and the province without having to resort to gambling to do so.

While you claim that councillors don't have a clue (and manage to confuse multiple unrelated issues), you don't make a case for this being a sound, long-term investment. It is largely a lazy investment, one that many jurisdictions have already made based on many of the same promises, most of which didn't really ever come through.
 
Tell that to Vegas! I'm so fed up with these half brained city council members! Do he think the Mafia might come to Toronto, or major organized crime? Got news for you, they are already here! I think a casino, Vegas style, in the port lands would be terrific. It would create thousands of jobs, make hundreds of millions a year for the city, and draw thousands more tourists to our city. It's high time city council stopped acting like Toronto is an innocent small town, we're a major, international metropolis, worthy of all the attractions therein! We do not need these clowns (I didn't vote for any of them) who are completely out of touch stop Toronto from achieving its full potential. It's the very same people blocking several construction permits of super talls because it will cast a shadow, no kidding? Really? They're literally afraid of their own shadows? I'm sorry to be so offensive, but enough is enough, they haven't got a clue, yet they are the ones in charge?

So to interpret your statement: Toronto is not an innocent small town therefore we should welcome a waterfront casino, in spite of all of the known negative impacts. Not least of which is the fact that casinos are tacky eyesores that attract crowds that do not contribute to city life in any way.

No thanks.
 
It's high time city council stopped acting like Toronto is an innocent small town, we're a major, international metropolis, worthy of all the attractions therein!

And the way you're going about it is like a small-town hick who just won a zillion-dollar casino jackpot and is now under the delusion that he's international-metropolis "cosmopolitan".
 
Here's an article in Forbes on the world's best casinos, noting some key points as to why they're considered some of the best in the world. This is certainly not to say Toronto needs to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V these other casinos but it's definitely a good reminder when determining what is feasible and what is not for our city.

Link: http://www.forbes.com/2004/02/19/cx_cv_0219feat.html

World's Best Casinos
Christina Valhouli

Casinos are in the chips.

According to the Washington, D.C.-based American Gaming Association, about 51 million people--a group equivalent to roughly one quarter of the U.S. population over 21--visited a casino in 2002. From 2001 to 2002, the U.S. gaming industry grew by 3%, from $25.7 billion to $26.5 billion. And that's only the number of people who visited casinos domestically--and legally. Worldwide, although no hard figures exist, the number could be estimated to be double that.

From the glittering lights of the Las Vegas strip to the illegal pai gow parlors of New York's Chinatown, there is a wide range of casinos from which these potential 100 million people can choose. For most, proximity is the deciding factor, as in the case of places like Atlantic City where shuttle buses crammed with tourists run 24 hours a day. Equally popular are the continuous hovercrafts linking Hong Kong and Macao, and the daily flights to Las Vegas from airports around the globe.

Of course, there is more to casinos than just gambling. Since the early 1960s casinos have operated on the assumption that while black jack or roulette might be their main revenue stream, it is important to offer other incentives as well to keep occasional gamblers coming back to the tables. As a result, floor shows, free drinks, all-you-can-eat buffets and, increasingly, plush accommodations became more common. Today, Las Vegas pushes itself as much as a family destination as a gambling destination.

For the person looking for a top-end casino, such concerns as proximity and all-you-can-eat buffets are of less importance. There are basically two kinds of people in this bracket: the well-heeled amateur and the hard-core gambler. For the purposes of this article, however, we will set aside the hard-core gambler because they tend to follow the money and don't necessarily need luxury amenities to attract them.

The well-heeled amateur, on the other hand, is someone who has the cash to play, wants the best, is likely to bring along his or her family and wants them to be entertained while he or she is hitting the tables. At this level, many top casinos offer much the same experience as far as gambling goes: all offer many of the same games, as well as such perks as private rooms.

Ironically, what makes one top casino distinctive from another is often not so different from what attracts the average punter, except that what is on offer is usually considerably better. Why settle for a bus when a casino will send a private jet? Why wait in line at the buffet when you can have a gourmet meal sent to your room? In some cases, why even pay for a suite because the casino, expecting you to gamble heavily, will provide you with a complimentary suite?

In some cases, the experience of gambling in an exclusive casino, rubbing elbows with royalty, is enough of an attraction. At London's private Clermont Club, there are no fancy boutiques or musical extravaganzas. Members may spend their winnings on vintage Champagne, or another flutter, but little else.

Another more "old world" casino is the world-famous Casino de Monte Carlo, which opened in 1863 and also eschews the resort mentality now in vogue. But the entire principality of Monaco is one big playground of the rich, so the well-heeled amateur may amuse himself at baccarat while his family hits the beach at the Société de Bains de Mer.

But visitors to Europe shouldn't expect perks like private planes. Because of European gaming laws, casinos are not allowed to directly "entice" clients.

In other places, though, some people prefer a little more pampering and a little less wagering. For example, in addition to floor shows, golf and spa services, the Bellagio in Las Vegas offers a branch of New York's swank Le Cirque restaurant as well as Hermès and Chanel boutiques.

Whether your gambling tastes run towards London or Las Vegas, you're sure to find a suitable one on our list of the World's Best Casinos. All of the casinos on our list are in glamorous, sophisticated locations--such as Monte Carlo, Antigua and Moscow. The casinos vary in size, from the intimate St. James Club in Antigua to the sprawling Casino Baden-Baden in Germany. Wherever you go, may Lady Luck be on your side.

There's also a slideshow of specific casinos, listed in the quoted article. A list of the world's best casinos according to Forbes:
  • St. James Club (Antigua)
  • Atlantis Resort (Bahamas)
  • The Clermont Club (London, UK)
  • Casino Baden-Baden (Baden-Baden, Germany)
  • Mandarin Oriental (Macau)
  • Casino de Monte Carlo (Monaco)
  • The Borgata Hotel, Casino and Spa (Atlantic City, NJ)
  • Bellagio (Las Vegas)
  • Casino Metropol (Moscow)
  • Sun City (South Africa)
 
I couldn't help but chuckle at the headline for this article in the Star today:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ou-to-forget-your-family-and-go-gambling?bn=1

Cohn: New casino ad urges you to forget your family and go gambling

Published On Mon Jun 11 2012

By Martin Regg Cohn
Queen's Park Columnist

More casinos are coming to Ontario, because there’s always more money to be made by them, from us — and for us.

It’s a win-win, or more precisely, a lose-win: The more gamblers wager, the more the government gains.

So get ready for more casino commercials like the one I saw the other night on television: a brazenly predatory invitation to gamble, driven by an insidious storyline that crosses the line.

Approved by the OLG, the ad invites the viewer to abandon the tedium of friends and family — to head out for a night of fun and frolic at Casino Rama. Better to gamble the night way than spend time at home.

The scene is set in the living room of a comfortable family home, where three adults are perched on a couch, munching on snacks. A deep-voiced narrator delivers an inner monologue as one of the protagonists looks painfully distracted at a party.

“Really? This is what passes for entertainment?” the inner voice torments.

In the OLG’s world, engaging in direct conversation with real people in real time is tedious. And so the protagonist’s internal conflict continues.

“Are you really going to spend your afternoon listening to Linda, or Lindsay?” the narrator taunts.

It’s the unspoken visuals that tell the story: The actors’ vacant, distant expressions convey people who are tired of one another and weary of their lives.

They would rather be somewhere else. With someone else.

“She’s bored you stiff with last year’s summer holiday. You gonna stick around while she tells you about next year’s plans for two weeks in Spain?”

Don’t, urges the narrator, dismissively.

“Adios, Lindsay!”

The commercial cuts to a rapid succession of action shots in the casino, set to a throbbing music beat showing the good life: Good food. Good gambling.

Quick clips of casino slots and blackjack tables. A roll of the dice. And magically, more gambling chips come your way on the table.

“Thaaaat’s more like it!” the narrator concludes approvingly: Best to bail out and head out.

Forgive my sensitivity, but after hearing Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty pay endless homage to the importance of family, egged on by Tory Leader Tim Hudak and echoed by the NDP’s Andrea Horwath, it’s a bit jolting to see the OLG broadcasting the opposite messages of escapism and disengagement.

Friends and family can bore you to death, while gambling enlivens you.

Conversation is draining, but casinos are enriching.

Don’t engage with people, just daydream about blackjack.

As the 30-second ad concludes, the customary OLG logo and disclaimer appears in small print: “Know your limit, play within it.”

Except that the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. doesn’t know its own limits.

An OLG spokesperson confirmed this ad was approved by a committee that oversees the promotional plans of all casinos, including Casino Rama and other privately operated destination resorts. “OLG reviews the creative to make sure these marketing teams meet all policies and standards.”

But the government agency remains conflicted, unable to strike a balance between restraint and revenue. When it comes to casino oversight, the buck stops with the OLG, yet it’s loath to halt the cash flow.

I’m not against people having fun, and I’d rather they lose their money in Ontario than travel out-of-province. But the OLG must resist the temptation to tempt people with a TV pitch that legitimizes personal alienation.

Preying on the impulses of problem gamblers — by celebrating their escapism — cheapens us all. And transforms a profitable business model into a perverse one.

Under pressure to make even more money, the government wants to transfer all its casinos to private operators. But before even contemplating any handover, the OLG needs to get a grip on its gambling ads — or it will lose even more credibility.

Here’s how the OLG can start cutting its losses: Pull this predatory ad from the airwaves and stop glamorizing gambling.
 
Ok then, I can respect that, but what else would you suggest? As for the revenue, most major tourist attractions, in any city, is supported by the tax payers, with profits, largely going to the government. Yes the tourist dollar helps as well, but I can't really understand the logic behind your arguement. In any free market economy, jobs are indeed lost in favor of higher profits and lower wages elsewhere. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's a sad reality of modern economics. Granted, I am, by no means, educated in these matters, I am, in fact, an X-ray tech. I do however, have much common sense, and learned a great deal from my father, a self made business owner and dare I say millionaire. With all this said, the question remains, what would you suggest we build that can benefit the city and it's citizens directly? I'm very interested in what your reply will be.
 
Hanlansboy:

As someone with nothing against the general idea of having a well-sited casino in the city, your arguments for such is a bit problematic:

I'm so fed up with these half brained city council members! Do he think the Mafia might come to Toronto, or major organized crime? Got news for you, they are already here!

Of course they are already here - the question is whether having a casino will exacerbate the issue given the tendency of organized crimes getting involved in illegal loans, etc. Of all the social arguments against casinos, this is actually one that really does bear close scrutiny.

I think a casino, Vegas style, in the port lands would be terrific. It would create thousands of jobs, make hundreds of millions a year for the city, and draw thousands more tourists to our city.

Considering there are extant plans for the portlands, you'd be trading a Vegas style casino (with its' typical lifespan of what, 20-30 years) and distrupting land uses that will worth significantly more over that same time period potentially, when there are extant sites that are far more suited to the purposes at hand. I don't consider that "terrific".

It's high time city council stopped acting like Toronto is an innocent small town, we're a major, international metropolis, worthy of all the attractions therein! We do not need these clowns (I didn't vote for any of them) who are completely out of touch stop Toronto from achieving its full potential.

Major international metropoli doesn't need a casino to be "world class", for the record.

It's the very same people blocking several construction permits of super talls because it will cast a shadow, no kidding? Really? They're literally afraid of their own shadows? I'm sorry to be so offensive, but enough is enough, they haven't got a clue, yet they are the ones in charge?

Just as super talls doesn't make a city "world class" either. And for the record, they didn't "block" construction permits - the land was never zoned for such developments in the first place.

I do however, have much common sense, and learned a great deal from my father, a self made business owner and dare I say millionaire.

At risk of engaging in ad hominem - what does your self-assessed common sense and your father's business prowess has to do with the merits of having a casino?

AoD
 
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Of course they are already here - the question is whether having a casino will exacerbate the issue given the tendency of organized crimes getting involved in illegal loans, etc. Of all the social arguments against casinos, this is actually one that really does bear close scrutiny.

Forget the Mafia, I'm sure the Payday Loan sharks will reap in some profits.
 
Toronto Star: Another potential casino site? Front Street

A casino on Front St. in the heart of downtown Toronto is the latest proposal spawned by the Ontario government’s bid to boost gambling profits.

Oxford Properties Group is incorporating a possible casino-entertainment complex into discussions of a major redevelopment of its part of the Metro Toronto Convention Centre and surrounding properties, the Star has learned.

Two independent sources confirmed the talks, but portrayed Oxford, owned by pension giant OMERS, as joining in the casino discussions with less zeal than others such as MGM Resorts and Caesar’s Entertainment.

“The feeling at Oxford is, this potential plum is out there and we can’t just ignore it,†said a source who has been part of discussions on the redevelopment.

The plan, they said, includes retail, office space, condominiums and — pending agreement from city council to host a casino, and an Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. procurement process to select a builder and operator — gambling on one floor that could jut out over adjacent rail lands.
 
So is the Convention Centre is in Adam Vaughan's Ward? LOL
 

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