TOareaFan
Superstar
Playing coy or just saying what Toronto is saying...expansion of gambling operations to full casinos should go to a referendum?
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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)
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Playing coy or just saying what Toronto is saying...expansion of gambling operations to full casinos should go to a referendum?
taal
Senior Member
Well similar to Toronto's stance but they definitely indicated interest.
Assuming Markham is all open doors toward this (powerful Mayor perhaps) then that indeed looks like the easiest approach. I don't think the province wants to wait until 2014 for Toronto, so it that's the option it will probably be lost.
Assuming Markham is all open doors toward this (powerful Mayor perhaps) then that indeed looks like the easiest approach. I don't think the province wants to wait until 2014 for Toronto, so it that's the option it will probably be lost.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
taal:
It would be interesting to see if/how Markham finesse this, considering their electorate also voted against casinos (even charity ones) before. That, and whether anyone would be interested in opening up one up there.
AoD
It would be interesting to see if/how Markham finesse this, considering their electorate also voted against casinos (even charity ones) before. That, and whether anyone would be interested in opening up one up there.
AoD
taal
Senior Member
Being quite familiar with Markham as I know many who leave her and work here ... they're not big on public consolations, of course they exist but ...
Anyway they'll push this.
They essentially have a backer to build a huge arena there, and it seems its going forward now. Moreover, are you aware of the Markham Live project ? Essentially a giant sports training facility with Olympic class facilities, there is nothing even close in the GTA, it's similar to what is in Calgary, again that also seems to be in the books (planning under way it will probably start in a couple years though). You wonder why waterfront Toronto didn't think of that idea.
Anyway the point is clearly they can build a casino there and there will be backers / huge demand. Of course people will drive to this (and take transit).
I'm not sure about MGM, but as far as I'm aware the province was willing to go ahead without them.
coolcanadian
Banned
I really hope this gets built. I
The MGM casino hotel that was built in Detroit (an already pedestrian unfriendly city) costed $800 million to construct. This is a $6 billion proposal. There is no comparing it to detroit whatsoever.
The casino that was built in a bad city, and now gives people a reason to go there. It has also become the cit's nicest hotel by far!
In Toronto, this is not the case at all.
A more appropriate example to compare our proposal to is the Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia.
The Crown Casino costed approximately $2 billion to build. This is the lower end of our budget.
The Crown attracts up to 16 million people each year. It is the largest tourism attraction in the entire country of Australia by far. It is the most successful entertainment complex in the Southern Hemisphere, and one of the largest in the world.
Also, just like what is proposed in Toronto, the Crown is not run by the government. It is owned by a private gaming company.
However, the complex has paid over $3 billion in taxes to the government.
So, even though it is owned by an external company, it gives money to the city.
Let's see what else the Crown has done for Melbourne...
The complex is the state’s largest single-site, private sector employer with over 6,500 employees.
The spa is the number one spa in the country. There are two spas on site.
The complex has 16 restaurants, 12 bars, 3 cafes, and 4 snack bars.
There are 3 hotels on site; two 5 Star and one 4.5 Star.
These is a large arcade, golf, upscale shopping, sports, nightclubs, theatre, bowling and many other attractions on site.
As from a street point of view, the Crown has fountains, fire shows, beautiful landscaping, and a positive outside scene. It works with the city.
Let me ask you something. When you think of Melbourne, is "CASINO" the first thing that comes to mind? No, it's not. However, this is a huge attraction.
In no way can this be compared to anything in Canada or American (excluding Vegas).
There are no multi-billion dollar resorts in Atlantic City.
You can't even compare it to Vegas, really, because Vegas is completely different than Toronto. It's casino after casino. There is not supposed to be and outdoor street scene. This would not be the case in Toronto.
These are the kind of projects that make people say "Wow!"
MGM has already commented about the skyline, meaning this will look nice!
Also, we probably won't be getting an MGM Hotel, as this is a little lower end. Be aware that it is MGM Hotel Group, who also owns Bellagio, Aria, and other luxury high end buildings. A billion dollar thing like this will only be positive.
The MGM casino hotel that was built in Detroit (an already pedestrian unfriendly city) costed $800 million to construct. This is a $6 billion proposal. There is no comparing it to detroit whatsoever.
The casino that was built in a bad city, and now gives people a reason to go there. It has also become the cit's nicest hotel by far!
In Toronto, this is not the case at all.
A more appropriate example to compare our proposal to is the Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia.
The Crown Casino costed approximately $2 billion to build. This is the lower end of our budget.
The Crown attracts up to 16 million people each year. It is the largest tourism attraction in the entire country of Australia by far. It is the most successful entertainment complex in the Southern Hemisphere, and one of the largest in the world.
Also, just like what is proposed in Toronto, the Crown is not run by the government. It is owned by a private gaming company.
However, the complex has paid over $3 billion in taxes to the government.
So, even though it is owned by an external company, it gives money to the city.
Let's see what else the Crown has done for Melbourne...
The complex is the state’s largest single-site, private sector employer with over 6,500 employees.
The spa is the number one spa in the country. There are two spas on site.
The complex has 16 restaurants, 12 bars, 3 cafes, and 4 snack bars.
There are 3 hotels on site; two 5 Star and one 4.5 Star.
These is a large arcade, golf, upscale shopping, sports, nightclubs, theatre, bowling and many other attractions on site.
As from a street point of view, the Crown has fountains, fire shows, beautiful landscaping, and a positive outside scene. It works with the city.
Let me ask you something. When you think of Melbourne, is "CASINO" the first thing that comes to mind? No, it's not. However, this is a huge attraction.
In no way can this be compared to anything in Canada or American (excluding Vegas).
There are no multi-billion dollar resorts in Atlantic City.
You can't even compare it to Vegas, really, because Vegas is completely different than Toronto. It's casino after casino. There is not supposed to be and outdoor street scene. This would not be the case in Toronto.
These are the kind of projects that make people say "Wow!"
MGM has already commented about the skyline, meaning this will look nice!
Also, we probably won't be getting an MGM Hotel, as this is a little lower end. Be aware that it is MGM Hotel Group, who also owns Bellagio, Aria, and other luxury high end buildings. A billion dollar thing like this will only be positive.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Well, certain people expressed interest and some expressed opposition.....very similar to Toronto..again.
I agre the province does not want to wait for votes in 2014....I think they would like the gambling open by then....that is why, I think, they are playing municipality off against municipality...hoping someone blinks.....and I really believe that they are hoping for Toronto to agree first. I doubt if the likes of MGM have any desire to be anywhere other than in the city proper and as close to downtown as possible.
My read (and it is only from reading all the press)......they are hoping to solve multiple issues at one time and they want an MGM "casino resort" on OP grounds.
As much as we have an eager poster here who seems to want the casino in Markham, I have no reason to believe there is any more consensus on Markham than there would be on any council....there will be some level of opposition and it is looking like wherever this goes there is a referendum.
Best plan for the province.....lose the vote on the budget...include the casino referendum on provincial ballots and sort this out fast.
Markham VIP
New Member
1. You agree that the Province doesn't want to wait until 2014. Does that fact result in an advantage for Toronto or a disadvantage.
2. I respect your opinion about the Province playing the municipalities against one another, however, I do no agree. What evidence do you have to support that theory?
3. I do not think either that MGM has plans to come to Markham. As it has already been pointed out, the Province made this announcement before MGM got involved.
4. I'm sure Toronto Press is reporting about solving multiple issues with an MGM resort. However, that is what the Toronto Press have been saying.....what has the Province been saying? What has OLG been saying? Is OLG going to allow Toronto and MGM to plan their casino?
5. I am that eager poster you speak of from Markham.
6. The modernization of OLG is in the Liberal Budget. If the Liberals pass the budget, then OLG will get the green light to proceed, and we will all find out what their plans are. Until then, it is all speculation........
taal
Senior Member
The MGM aspect is rather strange, you're right that I don't believe the province was aware of this before.
Not sure if you heard today but apparently there is a not Las Vegas group expressing interest ! I forgot the name.
That may change things around as far as the province is concerned or they may completely ignore it and do it on their own.
Not sure if you heard today but apparently there is a not Las Vegas group expressing interest ! I forgot the name.
That may change things around as far as the province is concerned or they may completely ignore it and do it on their own.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Neutral because I have yet to see any municipality come out and say "we want it and we can do this without a referendum". In fact, today's media reports now indicate that reps from one of the municpalities that the province said were interested (mississauga) has said they too would need a referendum.
Prior to today it was just a "gut feel"...as noted above though, one of the municipalities that the Province was waving at Toronto has now shown that they are not as unified or as interested as reported and they too would need a referendum.
Yes the province announced a few weeks ago they wanted to expand their gaming footprint and one of their plans was to have a GTA casino. Wether they knew about MGM being interested or not does not matter to me. One of the goals of the expansion was economic stimulus....now that a $2B - $6B stimulus is possible...they are going to listen.
If it means money...yes.
Yes you are...and I admire your devotion to the city you live in....mine could use people like you....I just think that you are letting your passion for Markham cloud/blinker you from seeing the opportunities that will present themselves outside of Markham. (nothing wrong with that but I think it is so).
I don't think they had plans beyond "expand and mondernize" now that it is evolving I think they see a massive opportunity to build something that some will see as spectacular and get them out of the jam at OP.........if they could just deal with that pesky council in Toronto.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
That would be a great site.
taal
Senior Member
That's actually a good idea ! At first I thought you meant the Queens Quay and Yonge site near the Pier 27 condos that the city bought, but I was going to say that's probably way too small.
Why don't you email MGM !
jaycola
Active Member
I'll vote for the Toronto Star location too. I was never impressed with the condo plans for the foot of Yonge st.
I really think the Casino needs to be in Toronto and downtown for it to be truly successful. If getting a partner like MGM means putting it downtown, we should work towards that as a goal.
We have a long history of halfway measures (the Four Seasons Centre is a fine example). If the Government, at any level, takes responsibility for this development, it will be a bland simulation of the truly great casino resorts of the world.
To be honest, Ontario place would be my top choice. Making greater use of floating pods, taking advantage of the exhibition's historic buildings for year round attractions, allowing for public access to the shore line...it could be a win for all.
Just found this little blurb on Newstalk1010's site.
I really think the Casino needs to be in Toronto and downtown for it to be truly successful. If getting a partner like MGM means putting it downtown, we should work towards that as a goal.
We have a long history of halfway measures (the Four Seasons Centre is a fine example). If the Government, at any level, takes responsibility for this development, it will be a bland simulation of the truly great casino resorts of the world.
To be honest, Ontario place would be my top choice. Making greater use of floating pods, taking advantage of the exhibition's historic buildings for year round attractions, allowing for public access to the shore line...it could be a win for all.
Just found this little blurb on Newstalk1010's site.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
Is this really what people want to put on our Waterfront? Are you people INSANE?
mgm by queer_central, on Flickr
mgm-thumb-610x335-42634 by queer_central, on Flickr
This is the furthest thing I'd want to happen to Ontario Place. Do you see people walking in this picture? It's a terribly inhospitable area to walk and not pedestrian friendly at all. I feel so isolated walking around these parts of Vegas. It may look good from a distance but once you experience it at street level, it becomes quite alienating walking by these huge, tacky monsters, which is why people in Vegas do very little walking to get around. Pedestrians stick to the small but crowded amusement area, with the flashy roof thingy and the fast food joints.
mgm_back by queer_central, on Flickr
mgm by queer_central, on Flickr
mgm-thumb-610x335-42634 by queer_central, on Flickr
This is the furthest thing I'd want to happen to Ontario Place. Do you see people walking in this picture? It's a terribly inhospitable area to walk and not pedestrian friendly at all. I feel so isolated walking around these parts of Vegas. It may look good from a distance but once you experience it at street level, it becomes quite alienating walking by these huge, tacky monsters, which is why people in Vegas do very little walking to get around. Pedestrians stick to the small but crowded amusement area, with the flashy roof thingy and the fast food joints.
mgm_back by queer_central, on Flickr
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dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
The project could be flashy (hopefully not trashy) and I don't mind the MGM Grand (hotel tower) at all, but I can't see us getting anything that big here. There are a half dozen great looking buildings in Vegas but as you say in some areas they don't create a very pedestrian friendly environment. That needs to be a requirement by the City if such a project were to be introduced downtown - which is where I think a casino should be so that tourists & such have easy access to it.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
Is this the beautiful Crown Casino you were talking about? Would you feel proud to have this on our waterfront?
Crown-casino by queer_central, on Flickr
melbourne-crown-casino by queer_central, on Flickr
Is this what you'd consider a beautiful, animated, pedestrian-friendly street? Come on guys, we need to raise our standards a little, especially for valuable waterfront land. SHEESH!
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