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Officially Unofficial Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan Thread

Really annoying trying to read what should be interesting transit threads. All these long posts with a million quotes are hard on the eyes. Can't the three or four of you calm it down a bit?
Agreed. Perhaps everyone can cut down on the rhetoric, and avoid loaded terms like "Transfer City", "stubway", "subway-fan", "streetcar-fan", etc. It's like watching a debate between hardcore Liberals and Tories on who has the least ethics. :)

If you vehemently disagree with someone, perhaps just asking a couple of questions to clarify might be better - might turn out that you mostly agree.
 
I will join for sure, but my graphic design skills are pretty limited.

The discussion of (what would effectively be the) DRL in the Green Paper is pretty interesting. It's introduced as part of a "Bold" scenario for rapid transit in the GTA which would be implemented in addition to MoveOntario. They offer two options, essentially--the "incremental" plan, which is MO2020, or the aforementioned "Bold" scheme, including DRL (and an RER-style regional metro). While this is all obviously quite hypothetical, the language they use makes it sound like they might endorse the second, bigger option.

All of this suggests that MO2020 is not going to be the be-all and end-all of Metrolinx's mandate, which gives us some hope that some of the oversights inherent in the muncipal plans of which it consists will be corrected.

Anyway, everybody go and comment!

Edit: I guess it can only be a good sign that Metrolinx is calling a $17.5Bn transit plan "incremental."
 
Sheppard must run along Sheppard...the purpose of the route is not to shuttle people from point A to point B (North York to STC) but to serve everybody along the way. As for running along the 401, we made that mistake with Spadina - why repeat it? Agincourt in the vicinity of Birchmount/Kennedy is highly developed and thousands more residential units are getting built...Allanford/Kennedy are the busiest stops on the 190.

But, yeah, extending it to Vic Park (with a stop at Consumers) is a start...the city seems to be more concerned about the viability of its employment lands lately and a short extension will really improve the prospects of the huge Consumers office park. I'd agree that we're infinitely better off waiting than building it in the wrong place...the subway is an end-game transit state, after all.

Really annoying trying to read what should be interesting transit threads. All these long posts with a million quotes are hard on the eyes. Can't the three or four of you calm it down a bit?

Then how can you stand reading construction threads about Trump or any other ones which contain, literally, 50 identical pages of complaints about cladding? At least these transportation debates concern infrastructure that has not yet been built and that is subject to actual public involvement. These internet debates can have real influence: Steve Munro's probably been fighting since before I was born and his advocacy, though it took a while, worked.
 
On the Metrolinx document - check out Pickering Airport on the Peterborough line. It's really not about Peterborough commuters boys and girls, it's about paving over thousands of hectares of farmland when we don't have decent interurban rail. But back to the discussion at hand -
we all know the money well will dry up at some point.
Yeees... but that assumes there's only one source of money - tax dollars from one level of government or another. The LUAS LRT system in Dublin is so popular a group of developers are paying a chunk of the capital cost - $55m - to have a spur line to their housing/commercial development. The spur is 4.2km in total but this includes an extra length requested by the local council - I think the developer sought portion would only be about half that. With increased density they're going to make it back with a large profit.

Unfortunately TTC service has been so run into the ground by service cuts and delayed vehicle acquisition that people ride it out of necessity rather out of desire. This means that councillors hear complaints about the TTC rather than demands that its reach get bigger.

The St Clair line should have been a showcase line with new LRVs as well as new ROWs - in fact it should have been separated from the "old" network and associated with the Transit City lines rather than the downtown lines in terms of vehicle type, since there is currently no shared service between it and downtown, with crossovers and double blade switches rather than loops in the rebuilt ROW.

While Save Our St Clair did hold up the show their NIMBYing did cause people to notice some dismaying attitudes in the Roads Dept with respect to design (cars first, then maybe transit, pedestrians last) and after all the disruptions the same old inaccessible LRVs come rumbling down the "new" line which despite promises is apparently unused by emergency services due to the centre poles - I don't think even traffic priority is enabled?

No developer like the guys at Cityplace is going to say - "here's $55m, I want an LRT line because my clients want it and it will give me increased Official Plan density so I can make it back" because where's the confidence that the end product will be the kind of transit that people flock to? You can use tax increment financing but that has a political cost since it's involuntary.

We now have to wait and see if Cherry is that line, and there are some positive signs, but given its connection to King it doesn't have the same possibility of isolation from the failures of systems past as St Clair had, and since the vehicle tender is still not done it's likely to be the same tanks rattling up and down the shiny new ROW.
 
Agreed. Perhaps everyone can cut down on the rhetoric, and avoid loaded terms like "Transfer City", "stubway", "subway-fan", "streetcar-fan", etc. It's like watching a debate between hardcore Liberals and Tories on who has the least ethics. :)
If you vehemently disagree with someone, perhaps just asking a couple of questions to clarify might be better - might turn out that you mostly agree.

I wish people here would get that and not be quick to judge comments based on who's posting them. Does the purity of thought stand for anything anymore?

BTW-my personal fave term is d'Earl for the DRL cause no one's gotten the punch line yet ;).

Sheppard must run along Sheppard...

In that case why veer through an industrial park when for a few mil more we can build a Sheppard-BD loop that'd reach across two-thirds of Scarborough including 100, 000 residents in the northeast and a booming student commuter population a la Centennial/UTSC.

Metrolinx "Bold" options map... click for high res

I'm liking the Urban Rapid Transit suggestions that Sheppard subway would route from Malvern to Downsview, Eglinton subway from Pearson to Kennedy and the Queen line from Dundas West to Pape. It's almost the perfect outlook for the city's subway future.
 
On the Metrolinx document - check out Pickering Airport on the Peterborough line. It's really not about Peterborough commuters boys and girls, it's about paving over thousands of hectares of farmland when we don't have decent interurban rail.

Don't confuse the line shown on the map with the budget announcement last week.

MoveOntario 2020 called for a line to Claremont, the closest town to the airport site.

The federal plan is a completely separate proposal.
 
The more I look at those maps the more I agree with Spadina going to VCC. That has the potential of being a major transit node. Now if SCC could also receive a subway connection from both directions we'd be set.
 
The more I look at those maps the more I agree with Spadina going to VCC. That has the potential of being a major transit node. Now if SCC could also receive a subway connection from both directions we'd be set.

The more I look at those maps the more MCC looks disconnected and ignored, off to the side.
 
The more I look at those maps the more MCC looks disconnected and ignored, off to the side.

In the bold initiative Mississauga would be at the intersection of two REX lines. I would assume LRT down Hurontario would still be there but simply didn't meet the definition of Urban Rapid Transit that they were using on the map. REX would be frequent express service which would probably run Mississauga Centre - Etobicoke Centre - Downtown Toronto every 10 minutes.
 
In the bold initiative Mississauga would be at the intersection of two REX lines. I would assume LRT down Hurontario would still be there but simply didn't meet the definition of Urban Rapid Transit that they were using on the map. REX would be frequent express service which would probably run Mississauga Centre - Etobicoke Centre - Downtown Toronto every 10 minutes.

If REX is just BRT, then it's not much of anything is it?

MCC should have subway just like STC and VCC, especially since it's not much farther than STC, and it's closer than VCC.

Only thing is, Mississauga needs to pay it's fair share for the portion from Etobicoke Creek to MCC. Therein lies Hazel's problem with it, and why as long as she's in office, no subway will cross Etobicoke Creek into her territory. Because she's "fiscally responsible".
 
Did Metrolinx explain what REX means exactly... for a layman like me? Could anyone provide any example of another transit system elsewhere that is similar?
 
Did Metrolinx explain what REX means exactly... for a layman like me? Could anyone provide any example of another transit system elsewhere that is similar?

REX, as this Metrolinx advisory committee member understands it, is fast, frequent heavy rail trains on the railway corridor. Some call it regional rail, some call it s-bahn. Buttom line, it's smaller trains every 15 minutes or better.
 
REX, as this Metrolinx advisory committee member understands it, is fast, frequent heavy rail trains on the railway corridor. Some call it regional rail, some call it s-bahn. Buttom line, it's smaller trains every 15 minutes or better.

Thanks for the info... does this imply electrification?
 

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