North American Transit System Ranking

[TOareaFan]

You said he owns his house? He should at least have spent 30 seconds looking at Google maps to check where the subway stations are as basic real estate research when buying his house. Even if he never takes transit, it affects the property value of his house.

a) pretty sure he owned it before the subway was built....b) he would not google looking for something he has no inention of using....c) pretty sure he does not intend to sell......d) when he selected the house it would have been "good neighbourhood....easy drive downtown.....quick access to 401 when needed....." transit would never have entered the equation...that is the point, I don't think it enters too many people's equation in his situation in Toronto.

 

[ehlow]

a) pretty sure he owned it before the subway was built....b) he would not google looking for something he has no inention of using....c) pretty sure he does not intend to sell......d) when he selected the house it would have been "good neighbourhood....easy drive downtown.....quick access to 401 when needed....." transit would never have entered the equation...that is the point, I don't think it enters too many people's equation in his situation in Toronto.

Even if he wouldn't take 30 seconds to look at Google maps, doesn't he ever leave his house? If he drives by the station he will see a TTC logo.

Even if he plans to die in his house and never sell, and never ever use transit, it still worth it to understand some basic things about the area the house you own is in. That level of ignorance is astounding.

 

[Rock]

Amusing... In Toronto Neighborhoods, "Living in Waterfront Communities-The Island Toronto" ranked 11th, and the survey notes "The Island is a Walker’s Paradise".

I lived as a tenant for many years on both Wards and Algonquin (which are also a sailors "paradise").

And on the Wikipedia entry for the Islands is noted "The islands comprise the largest urban car-free community in North America, though some service vehicles are permitted."

"Car-free"? I suppose Islanders might say there is maybe a correlation, and that perhaps walking everywhere in your own neighbourhood might be good exercise for us humans. Even the dogs and cats seem more relaxed, lying about eg on the roads.

While most vehicles on the "public transit" system generally do not go door-to-door, for Islanders the ferry service involves a short wait involving catching up on local news with your neighbours.

There was a time of course when the Islands had "main drags" and hotels and a baseball diamond (plus no airport). Even Wards was turned into an island only when in 1852 a storm flooded sand pits on the peninsula, creating a channel east of Ward's.

It may be amusing for some to see how native plants and animals have re-invaded "Tommy Thompson Park".

I has been written elsewhere "It has been posited by some historical researchers that the pre-contact Aboriginal people in North America were the original “affluent society.”

And also "The islands held long-standing, special healing significance to the Anishnaabek. As D.W. Smith’s Gazetteer recorded in 1813, “the long beach or peninsula, which affords a most delightful ride, is considered so healthy by the Indians that they resort to it whenever indisposed.” The Toronto Islands were important stopping places for the Anishnaabe fishery and were places of healing and spiritual renewal."

Today, Islanders might suggest that any transit service is at best only an "inconvenience", and that the advantages of living there FAR outweigh the small nuisances. That if any were "King (or Queen) of the City of the GTA", they might start by banning the private automobile, at least from the expanding "core" (and much better public transit too, of course). The many costs of private car ownership cut deeply into TTC services.

Even today some might suggest the Islanders are "squatters", and if they had their way the Islanders would be forced to move, so that the Islands might be ruined as perhaps some other communities in Toronto are now.

In fact they may be the last remaining *protectors* of that little slice of paradise that so many citizens of (and visitors to) Toronto see today.

(Disclaimer: I have not lived there for many years. I recently moved to Scarborough, but of course not too far from Lake Ontario and Bluffers Park. I do still have Islander friends. And love "our" TTC.)

PS. By the way, the small Village of Wilmette, a suburb near Chicago's North Shore (think as Oakville is to Toronto. In 2007, Wilmette was ranked as the seventh best place to raise children in the U.S., according to Business Week). Anyway, Wilmette recently had their annual "Going Green Matters" on March 9th, including lots of activities, including "Examining eight of the latest electric and hybrid cars and the newest hybrid electric commuter bikes". And around the world (Europe and China) use of the "hybrid" pedal/electric bike has already "exploded". At great loss to the 20th-century "horseless carriage" in private use.

 

[King of Kensington]

Hating the TTC is Toronto's most popular sport...people on my FB feed are claiming this report is crap because it doesn't take into account "all the delays" (which never happen anywhere else apparently).

 

[TOareaFan]

Even if he wouldn't take 30 seconds to look at Google maps, doesn't he ever leave his house? If he drives by the station he will see a TTC logo.

Even if he plans to die in his house and never sell, and never ever use transit, it still worth it to understand some basic things about the area the house you own is in. That level of ignorance is astounding.

We're going to far into this one guy but, yes, he leaves his house...a lot...a very "out there" guy enjoying all that a city/region like Toronto has to offer....he knows there is a subway/transit system...he just does not care because he would never use it and does not see it as an asset to him. Sounds like you would be surprised to know how "normal" that is within his peer group.

 

[ehlow]

We're going to far into this one guy but, yes, he leaves his house...a lot...a very "out there" guy enjoying all that a city/region like Toronto has to offer....he knows there is a subway/transit system...he just does not care because he would never use it and does not see it as an asset to him. Sounds like you would be surprised to know how "normal" that is within his peer group.

No I know there are tons of people that don't use transit and would never do it. I'm just surprised that someone who owns a house wouldn't at least know that there's a subway line near by. I'm not saying they would actually use it, just know that it exists is all I'm saying.

 

[King of Kensington]

It would be an interesting survey.....until then it is all anecdotal stuff.....I tend to be at the lower end of income range of my friends (that is the nicest way I could find to describe myself as the poorest guy in my social/work circle) but I am by no means poor.....and I can tell you that the reaction I get when I either take transit (or suggest to others that they/we do) is along the lines of "really, why? people do that?"

I remember the time I was going to a gathering at a friend's house....he lives 5-7 minute walk south of Bayview/Sheppard.....I left from my office downtown so just used the subway......when I showed up he answered the door and said "where's your car"...when I told him I took the subway he wondered how I got to his house from York Mills Station! So unaware/uninterested in transit that he is he never considered that there was a faster/easier station to get to from his place. He, like so many of my city dwelling friends, drives every day from there to a tower in the financial core.

Of course the equivalent of this person in New York would live on Long Island or Westchester County.

 

[ehlow]

Hating the TTC is Toronto's most popular sport...people on my FB feed are claiming this report is crap because it doesn't take into account "all the delays" (which never happen anywhere else apparently).

I agree and it's annoying, but it is valid that we need a new signalling system to avoid signal problems. Unfortunately it's still years away and set to go into use in 2018.

 

[TOareaFan]

Of course the equivalent of this person in New York would live on Long Island or Westchester County.

That is a decent point......but I am still not sure it says that we don't have a "stigma" issue with public transit...which was the notion I was repsonding too.

 

[Grimace]

Once you reach a certain level of income commuting decisions become personal as opposed to being driven by financial necessity. These people make up a relatively small percentage of commuters and should not drive infrastructure decisions other than perhaps trying to soak them on parking taxes or tolls.

I work with lots of well-off people. To be honest I don't know a lot of people who drive regularly when it will increase their commute time. Wealthy people will drive when it will shorten their commute. When it is fairly equal, it is a personal decision. I think if you grew up riding transit (i.e., didn't come from well-off family) you might be more likely to ride transit despite being well-off now. I know some people making low 7 figures annually who frequently take transit to/from work. I know others who are like the ones mentioned above who scoff at the idea.

Most of these people will not take buses. There's stigma against buses. But subways and streetcars not so much.

 

[ehlow]

Once you reach a certain level of income commuting decisions become personal as opposed to being driven by financial necessity. These people make up a relatively small percentage of commuters and should not drive infrastructure decisions other than perhaps trying to soak them on parking taxes or tolls.

I work with lots of well-off people. To be honest I don't know a lot of people who drive regularly when it will increase their commute time. Wealthy people will drive when it will shorten their commute. When it is fairly equal, it is a personal decision. I think if you grew up riding transit (i.e., didn't come from well-off family) you might be more likely to ride transit despite being well-off now. I know some people making low 7 figures annually who frequently take transit to/from work. I know others who are like the ones mentioned above who scoff at the idea.

Most of these people will not take buses. There's stigma against buses. But subways and streetcars not so much.

Agreed. Most of the people at my work place own cars, but they still take transit. I'm guessing this would be the same in many offices in the downtown area.

 

[Memph]

So this methodology does not take into account:

-ease of transfers
-speed of transit
-what transit takes you to (just transit going through residential neighbourhoods, or is there retail or workplaces nearby?)

It does take into account

-how many routes are nearby/how close the nearest stop is
-what mode (heavy/light rail has a 2x high score than bus, ferry and cable car is 1.5x high than bus)
-frequency of transit

I think a better score would be how much* is accessible by transit within x amount of time, similar to walk score, which shows how many amenities are within x amount of walking distance. Also, it should be weighted according to where people live, if Ottawa's greenbelt and rural areas are poorly served by transit, that shouldn't matter. They already have the data and algorithms for this, seeing as you can get a map on their website of what is accessible within x amount of time from any given location, plus the amenities for walk score, plus they have the population of neighbourhoods for many cities that can be used for population weighting (though mainly for large central cities, there's no neighbourhood population breakdown for Brampton).

*This could be how much amenities, combining the data they use for walk score.

Frequency is probably how Toronto gets ahead of Chicago. Maybe distance to routes, but that I'm less sure of. Still surprised that New York isn't further ahead of Toronto though given how it has much more extensive subways which are weighted 2x what buses are. As for why Ottawa ranks so low, probably because it has just bus transit. The bus transit is largely BRT, so it's not like regular buses, it's a fair bit faster, but that won't be reflected in the transit score.


Nonetheless, it's interesting how well Brampton ranks compared to many American cities

Miami: 58
Minneapolis: 58
Providence: 58
Seattle: 57
Baltimore: 57
Pittsburgh: 54
Los Angeles: 50
Portland: 50
Buffalo: 50
Milwaukee: 49
Cleveland: 47
Denver: 47
Rochester: 46
St Paul: 45
St Louis: 45
Atlanta: 43
Salt Lake City: 43
San Jose: 41
Cincinnati: 41
Fort Lauderdale: 39
Dallas: 39
San Diego: 36
Houston: 35
San Antonio: 35
Kansas City: 34
Sacramento: 33
Austin: 33
Las Vegas: 32
Columbus: 30
Tampa: 30
Louisville-Jefferson: 28
Raleigh: 23
Indianapolis: 23
Fort Worth: 19

 

[rfid]

San Francisco is a really small city served by buses, trolleybus, modernized streetcar/pre-metro system, cable car, and regional express rail. SF has a LOT of transit for it's size. And the city is very walkable

But, if we are talking about the "Bay Area" then I would argue much of the Greater Toronto Area is better connected and served. Try getting around the San Jose suburbs on VTA.

If we are talking about the city proper, again, Toronto is served by rail, subway, streetcar, and bus. I would argue that BART and Caltrain are not really serving the city proper, as much as Go trains simply brings people into city, but not around the city.

What does San Francisco have over Toronto that actually makes it a more accessible city?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Hating the TTC is Toronto's most popular sport...people on my FB feed are claiming this report is crap because it doesn't take into account "all the delays" (which never happen anywhere else apparently).

No one loves trashing Toronto more then the people that live here.

 

[Rock]

Hating the TTC is Toronto's most popular sport...people on my FB feed are claiming this report is crap because it doesn't take into account "all the delays" (which never happen anywhere else apparently).

On the surface at least, many delays might be because many roads are clogged... with folks in their cars.

Some may have concluded the 20th-century private "horseless carriage" is a victim of its own success, for urban travels at least.

About 100 years ago, one estimate said there were less than one thousand "cars" in the whole of North America. Of course today we have "urban sprawl", but many more folks living and working in our city downtowns.

We might build tall buildings full of offices and residences, but perhaps do not factor in higher traffic levels caused using the large private "automobile" (often empty with only the driver) to get from "A" to "B" (and "C", "D", etc).

Hourly Fine Particulate Matter Concentrations commonly "skyrocket" during the day as vehicles/drivers get on our roads operating gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles:
http://www.airqualityontario.com/history/pollutant.php?stationid=34020&pol_code=124

And daily levels of ground-level ozone at least partly due to vehicle exhausts is a given most days:
http://www.airqualityontario.com/re...nid=34020&startmonth=all&this_date=2014-12-31

(Some folks may have "delays" just trying to walk.)

Seen here:
http://www.airqualityontario.com/science/pollutants/nitrogen.php

In part:

NO2 is a reddish-brown gas with a pungent and irritating odour. It transforms in the air to form gaseous nitric acid and toxic organic nitrates. NO2 also plays a major role in atmospheric reactions that produce ground-level ozone, a major component of smog. It is also a precursor to nitrates, which contribute to increased respirable particle levels in the atmosphere.

And:

Approximately two-thirds or 68 per cent of NOx emitted in Ontario in 2006 came from the transportation sectors.

Currently, at the time of this writing, "ppb" (parts per billion) in Toronto are the highest anywhere in Ontario, often twice as higher than other Ontario cities, or higher.

Ontario "Air Quality" doesn't generally paint a very pretty picture.

Of course, with fewer private vehicles there would be far less idling and engine exhausts in stop-and-go traffic, waiting in line at food takeouts, etc..