News from across Europe

[Midtown Urbanist]

Highest voter turnout in recent Polish history however.

Demographics of Duda voters also indicate that the younger generation has little interest in his party's homophobia and ties to the Catholic church.

 

[AlbertC]

EU chides Turkey over Haghia Sophia

The European Union and Turkey were on a collision course over Ankara's decision to alter the status of Haghia Sophia, from a museum to a mosque, the EU's foreign affairs chief Josep Borrell said on Monday.

The 27 EU foreign ministers said that they "condemned the decision to convert such an emblematic monument as the Haghia Sophia," Borrell said.

"This decision will inevitably fuel the mistrust, promote renewed division between religious communities and undermine our efforts at dialogue and cooperation," he said after the first face-to-face meeting of EU foreign ministers in several months following the coronavirus pandemic.

Borrell added there was "broad support to call on the Turkish authorities to urgently consider and reverse this decision."

EU ministers chide Turkey over Hagia Sophia | DW | 13.07.2020

Ankara's decision to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque has been met with disapproval across the bloc. EU chiefs have also been discussing China and Hong Kong during their first face-to-face talks in several months.

m.dw.com

 

[Towered]

EU chides Turkey over Haghia Sophia

The European Union and Turkey were on a collision course over Ankara's decision to alter the status of Haghia Sophia, from a museum to a mosque, the EU's foreign affairs chief Josep Borrell said on Monday.

The 27 EU foreign ministers said that they "condemned the decision to convert such an emblematic monument as the Haghia Sophia," Borrell said.

"This decision will inevitably fuel the mistrust, promote renewed division between religious communities and undermine our efforts at dialogue and cooperation," he said after the first face-to-face meeting of EU foreign ministers in several months following the coronavirus pandemic.

Borrell added there was "broad support to call on the Turkish authorities to urgently consider and reverse this decision."

EU ministers chide Turkey over Hagia Sophia | DW | 13.07.2020

Ankara's decision to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque has been met with disapproval across the bloc. EU chiefs have also been discussing China and Hong Kong during their first face-to-face talks in several months.

m.dw.com

And even after conducting many such obnoxious, passive-aggressive, unnecessary moves, Turkey routinely feigns surprise and frustration that negotiations to become a member of the EU stalled years ago.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Turkey have no intention of joining the EU.

 

[Towered]

Turkey have no intention of joining the EU.

They formally applied in 1987 and have pushed for admission on and off since then through never-ending negotiations.

 

[Richard White]

They formally applied in 1987 and have pushed for admission on and off since then through never-ending negotiations.

IMO Russia would stand a better chance than Turkey. I always thought of Turkey as being a part of the middle east vs Russia which has been very much European for centuries.

 

[Northern Light]

And even after conducting many such obnoxious, passive-aggressive, unnecessary moves, Turkey routinely feigns surprise and frustration that negotiations to become a member of the EU stalled years ago.

Turkey have no intention of joining the EU.

To be clear, @Towered is correct that Turkey once did aspire to be a member of the E-U, and was, in fact, making real efforts to comply w/E-U asks to qualify for membership. Those included relaxing restrictions on religion (head scarf was banned in schools), greater freedom for journalists and several other moves.

@WislaHD is correct that they no longer have any expectation of joining the E-U.

The truth of the matter is the E-U didn't really want Turkey in the club, or at least some member countries did not.

They set the admission bar very high for Turkey and when Turkey got remotely close, they moved the proverbial goal posts.

Eventually, the Turkish government and people got the message.

There were some legitimate reasons to be cautious, ranging from a history of military intervention in government, to a much cheaper source of labour (Turkey is much lower-wage than Western Europe), and with a very large population (it would have been the most populous member of the E-U). Notwithstanding many legitimate concerns, its not hard to imagine that anti-Turkish/Muslim bigotry played a role in things.

France actually wanted to hold a referendum (within France, on whether Turkey could be admitted).

Cyprus has also been a thorn in the side of Turkish ascession.

For all that, the E-U could have moved with much greater haste (11 years after the start of negotiations, they hadn't even begun to look at several subjects)

In the end, the E-U set the stage for the current Erdogan; a set back, I think, for Turkey and the E-U, alike.

Accession of Turkey to the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SunriseChampion]

One of my grandmothers was Turkish so I've had a soft spot for the place. It's a shame what's been happening internally as well as in relations with the EU.

Turkey is awesome. Erdogan, not so much.

 

[SunriseChampion]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...-duda-wins-election-new-battles-with-eu-loom/

Not too familiar with the Polish situation but continues the global trend of voters electing nationalist populists

At first I was like "aaaw, you fools!" but then I remembered that the Czechs re-elected that Chinese lapdog drunk dementia patient Zeman (The Czech Yeltsin, for real) but then was comforted in knowing that at least the Slovaks are keeping the idea of hope of the people alive.

 

[Towered]

IMO Russia would stand a better chance than Turkey. I always thought of Turkey as being a part of the middle east vs Russia which has been very much European for centuries.

Russia in the EU?? Not a chance. That would be disastrous.

 

[Richard White]

Russia in the EU?? Not a chance. That would be disastrous.

Maybe so but they are much more European than Turkey is.

 

[Towered]

Maybe so but they are much more European than Turkey is.

I'd say that's highly debatable.

 

[Richard White]

I'd say that's highly debatable.

Mmm.. despite being an Eurasian nation they have been closely linker to Europe for centuries.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Both countries are mixed-bags. A lot of Turkey is ideologically and culturally (and indeed geographically) quite European/Mediterranean. It's especially obvious in places like Istanbul or Izmir. Unfortunately, this also describes only like 30% of the country and that is showing with the rise of Erdogan.

Russia ideologically and culturally is quite disparate from the European mainstream (perhaps a long-term consequence of historical trauma derived from the Tatar Yoke?). Value-sets are different, and it shows with the nation's propensity towards strong-man governments. Above all, they have a historical role as an antagonist to Eastern Europe - EU members included.

The EU is not a cultural union, but an economic one. As it looks at itself on the international stage in the 21st century, it should realize that it needs to become a strategic union too. Neither Turkey or Russia should become members because they would impose their interests at the expense of other EU members, which is not in the interest of Europe. Strategically speaking though, Turkey is a good counter-weight to Russian influence, which in part explains why the EU and NATO have traditionally tolerated Turkey even despite their infringements on Greek air-space, occupation of Cyprus, and antagonistic actions in Syria.

 

[Richard White]

Neither Turkey or Russia should become members because they would impose their interests at the expense of other EU members, which is not in the interest of Europe.

This is true. The way the EU is set up it would be a disaster.

The EU needs to do more from a majority and less from unanimity.